Crossbow vs Longbow, pros and cons?

[Chess Pwn]

And do you mind posting the stats for it or linking to the stats you're using?

[JamesTheDonkey]

Classic Monsters Revisted, pg 42 wrote:

Minotaurs have a love of complicated things, and
the double crossbow is one of their favorites. This
heavy weapon fires a pair of iron-tipped bolts with
deadly accuracy. Due to its size and weight, however,
non-proficient wielders suffer a –8 penalty on their
attack rolls. Even proficient wielders take a –2 penalty on
their attack rolls. If the attack is successful, the target takes
the listed damage twice, although critical hits and precisionbased
damage are only applied to one of the bolts. Reloading
a double crossbow takes 2 standard actions (one for each bolt),
although the Rapid Reload feat reduces this to 2 move actions
(meaning that it can be accomplished in 1 round).

Exotic Weapon Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Dmg (L) Critical Range Weight Type
Ranged Weapon
Double Crossbow 300 gp 1d6 1d8 2d6 19–20/2 100 ft. 18 lb. Piercing

I tried to copy the image of the whole block but it wouldn't paste.

Edit for more info: According to PFS Additional resources, this is one of only 2 things legal for player use in the whole book. The other is a bull rush feat.

[Dragonchess Player]

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Oh, and kinda silly application, but found another reason a character would consider crossbows over longbows:

-Only a 2 pt evolution to make your Unchained Eidolon use a Crossbow. 4pt evolution for a Longbow/composite longbow.

If you want an eidolon to use a bow, you can just have them take Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longbow) as one of their feats instead of spending evolution points ("Eidolons can select any feat they qualify for, but they must possess the appropriate appendages to use some feats"). The eidolon can't use any other weapon, but a 1 pt evolution for Claws can cover melee attacks. The summoner will also have to buy the bow and arrows for the eidolon and carry them when the eidolon isn't summoned.

[Alexandros Satorum]

gustavo iglesias wrote:

The heaviest Genovese Crossbows had up to 1200lbs pull. More average crossbows had between 250 and 500lb pulls

The very best of the english longbows are stimated about 160lb top, and that's being drawn by guys the size of a linebacker. Average longbow pull was around 90lb.

In no way the mighty composite longbow should outdamage a crosbow. Not even close. Not even close to be even close. If ypur best mighty longbows, shot by the strongest people, do 1d8+3 or 1d8+4, then the realistic average light crossbow should start at 1d8+5, and the cranked genovese heavy crossbows should do mo less than 1d10+10, at least.

Of course, that would not be balanced. And obviously, game balance should matter more than petty obssession with selective realism, so Xbows should not do 1d10+10. But then, if game balance should matter more than realism... why bows are far better weapons?

You know, keeping the crossbow much slower than bows (so no rapid shot or the like) but at the same time making it punch for much more damage per hit is a concept that have always intrigued me. THough I have never been able to balance it.

[Ierox]

Alexandros Satorum wrote:

gustavo iglesias wrote:

The heaviest Genovese Crossbows had up to 1200lbs pull. More average crossbows had between 250 and 500lb pulls

The very best of the english longbows are stimated about 160lb top, and that's being drawn by guys the size of a linebacker. Average longbow pull was around 90lb.

In no way the mighty composite longbow should outdamage a crosbow. Not even close. Not even close to be even close. If ypur best mighty longbows, shot by the strongest people, do 1d8+3 or 1d8+4, then the realistic average light crossbow should start at 1d8+5, and the cranked genovese heavy crossbows should do mo less than 1d10+10, at least.

Of course, that would not be balanced. And obviously, game balance should matter more than petty obssession with selective realism, so Xbows should not do 1d10+10. But then, if game balance should matter more than realism... why bows are far better weapons?

You know, keeping the crossbow much slower than bows (so no rapid shot or the like) but at the same time making it punch for much more damage per hit is a concept that have always intrigued me. THough I have never been able to balance it.

I saw this one guy who'd applied a bunch of houserules to make standard action attacks more interesting.

Among those were the fact that a heavy crossbow did 2d8 damage, and Vital Strike was an automatic option that scaled with level, all the way to *5 at level 20.

Longbows were still better than that, of course, but it made crossbows interesting.

I've once seen someone allow the Ogre 23rp race from the Advanced Race Guide with a minotaur double crossbow. It was straight up insane damage, although it relied upon the interpretation that since it says this:

Quote:

, although critical hits and precision-based damage are only applied to one of the bolts.

Anything that isn't precision damage and critical hits apply to both bolts. This means Deadly Aim, Point Blank Shot, Enhancement Bonus, Dexterity, yadda yadda.

The guy had trouble hitting for the first couple levels, but it was weighed against the occasional touch attack, and the fact that when he actually hit something, he dealt 4d8+2 damage. Still, he wound up spending the first couple levels mostly hitting stuff with an ogre hook.

When he finally got around to getting all his base feats, (point blank, rapid reload, crossbow master, precise, rapid shot) it stopped being funny. The guy would occasionally take Enlarge Person, and took to carrying around a small stock of huge sized bolts for when it happened, dealing 6d8 base damage per shot.

And that was before doubling any applicable non precision bonus damage.

The minotaur double crossbow outperforms longbows in the long run, I'm entirely certain.