Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Which doesn't really help if the character you built for the PrC is now level 10 because you were waiting over a year for it and the chronicle is on another character.To answer your first question its typically opens up to all characters with the option to retrain into it with that character.
Will the prestige class be opened just to the character with the chronicle or all characters that belong to that player? Are all the prestige classes eventually going to be given on chronicle sheets or just some? Will they all be this season or spread out over the next few years?
Why did you build a character off of content that you had no clue as of the legality of? Especially when it's common enough knowledge that they do this all the time.
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Why did you build a character off of content that you had no clue as of the legality of? Especially when it's common enough knowledge that they do this all the time.Which doesn't really help if the character you built for the PrC is now level 10 because you were waiting over a year for it and the chronicle is on another character.To answer your first question its typically opens up to all characters with the option to retrain into it with that character.
Will the prestige class be opened just to the character with the chronicle or all characters that belong to that player? Are all the prestige classes eventually going to be given on chronicle sheets or just some? Will they all be this season or spread out over the next few years?
Yes Paizo has just been raining prestige classes upon us the last few years. This happens all the time.
I've never seen them withhold so much content it needed to be called out explicitly. This is new.
Pathfinder Society Lead Developer
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To answer your first question its typically opens up to all characters with the option to retrain into it with that character.
Will the prestige class be opened just to the character with the chronicle or all characters that belong to that player? Are all the prestige classes eventually going to be given on chronicle sheets or just some? Will they all be this season or spread out over the next few years?
Most of the unlocked access options that have appeared on Chronicle sheets have opened that access to other characters, and the most recent ones have typically allowed some form of retraining for the PC who completes that adventure.
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Pathfinder Society Lead Developer
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The biggest example I can think of is the Stargazer. Many kinda have the feeling that it might be to OP for PFS. But currently we don't know that.
And prestigious spellcaster is something that maybe PFS doesn't want. I sure don't know for sure.So it's either ALL non legal material from the book is going to come out as a boon. Or it's more like a bait. Telling use that Options X are boons and options Y are never going to be legal lets me know WHAT to lobby to be included. And also it doesn't stop you from having exciting surprises to find out that this scenario was the one with the boon. Until someone's played it, because I to, like Patate - PK, as many as I could that the material was made legal and which scenario granted it. It also lets me know if I want the book. If I know option X will be legal by boon I could get the book now. If I don't know option X will make it or not I wont buy the book, and maybe not buy it if it does ever come up on a boon since I will have already moved on from it.
So your preferred wording for the first line would be "The X and Y are not currently legal for play but are scheduled to be unlocked on scenario Chronicle sheets. Other content might also be unlocked as the team outlines more adventures" or something like that?
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So your preferred wording for the first line would be "The X and Y are not currently legal for play but are scheduled to be unlocked on scenario Chronicle sheets. Other content might also be unlocked as the team outlines more adventures" or something like that?
Yes. Or, well, its probably common enough that you'd need to asterix it or something
X is legal
Y* is legal. Terms and conditions may apply. ie, kitsune only, tengu only
Y** is something we're saving for a chronicle or something cool and thematic enough to say "use it now!". No promises
z is oh hell no banhammered. We MIGHT open it with a chronicle some day but its either going to involve a charity auction, hell freezing over or a LOT of alchohol.
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So your preferred wording for the first line would be "The X and Y are not currently legal for play but are scheduled to be unlocked on scenario Chronicle sheets. Other content might also be unlocked as the team outlines more adventures" or something like that?
I think it is because nothing was marked not legal for play that people aren't able to know if the stuff being withheld will actually be released eventually.
If you had marked them as "To create a Brewkeeper character, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the class as a legal option" it be a lot more clear that the class IS legal through some means and not banned.
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So your preferred wording for the first line would be "The X and Y are not currently legal for play but are scheduled to be unlocked on scenario Chronicle sheets. Other content might also be unlocked as the team outlines more adventures" or something like that?The biggest example I can think of is the Stargazer. Many kinda have the feeling that it might be to OP for PFS. But currently we don't know that.
And prestigious spellcaster is something that maybe PFS doesn't want. I sure don't know for sure.So it's either ALL non legal material from the book is going to come out as a boon. Or it's more like a bait. Telling use that Options X are boons and options Y are never going to be legal lets me know WHAT to lobby to be included. And also it doesn't stop you from having exciting surprises to find out that this scenario was the one with the boon. Until someone's played it, because I to, like Patate - PK, as many as I could that the material was made legal and which scenario granted it. It also lets me know if I want the book. If I know option X will be legal by boon I could get the book now. If I don't know option X will make it or not I wont buy the book, and maybe not buy it if it does ever come up on a boon since I will have already moved on from it.
That looks better, but I think it would be best to outright say "X and Y will are not currently legal for play but are scheduled (etc)... Anything else from this book that isn't outlined below is not sanctioned for organized play."
It's always the sanctioning teams choice to change what is and isn't PFS legal, but the way it's written there just makes it sound as though you haven't decided what scenario it will go to vs. being outright banned.
John, are you able to tell us anything about how this will work (single, or all characters, reusable, coming anytime soon, etc.) or are you unable to disclose that yet?
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Why did you build a character off of content that you had no clue as of the legality of? Especially when it's common enough knowledge that they do this all the time.Which doesn't really help if the character you built for the PrC is now level 10 because you were waiting over a year for it and the chronicle is on another character.To answer your first question its typically opens up to all characters with the option to retrain into it with that character.
Will the prestige class be opened just to the character with the chronicle or all characters that belong to that player? Are all the prestige classes eventually going to be given on chronicle sheets or just some? Will they all be this season or spread out over the next few years?
I realized a while ago that this isn't the campaign for me. Personally I would prefer something where the rules were less kafkaesque and more apparent. I have become rather attached to the local community however which is why I try to find reasons to stay involved.
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Pathfinder Society Lead Developer
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So your preferred wording for the first line would be "The X and Y are not currently legal for play but are scheduled to be unlocked on scenario Chronicle sheets. Other content might also be unlocked as the team outlines more adventures" or something like that?I think it is because nothing was marked not legal for play that people aren't able to know if the stuff being withheld will actually be released eventually.
If you had marked them as "To create a Brewkeeper character, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the class as a legal option" it be a lot more clear that the class IS legal through some means and not banned.
So going along with that approach, I have several hypothetical situations whose outcomes seem unclear. I'll use the nonexistant Spiral Seer (a made-up Pharasman prestige class) in my examples.
1) I identify the spiral seer as one of the prestige classes to be unlocked on a Chronicle sheet because I know there are plans for it. Those plans won't come to fruition for at least three months, at which point that scenario unlocking the spiral witch is published. Are people amenable to having waited three months for that unlock? Six months? More? At which point does it go from "Oh, you saved this for a cool adventure reward" to "You performed a bait and switch"?
2) I identify the spiral seer as not being unlocked on a Chronicle sheet because I don't have a sense at this time whether I might have an appropriate adventure tie-in coming up. Some time from now, I find the perfect opportunity and add it. Have I been disingenuous because I didn't flag the spiral seer as a Chronicle sheet unlock, causing some players to abandon any attempt to build toward qualifying for the prestige class?
So basically, where's the line between a heads-up and leaving people hanging for too long?
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I can sort of see a logic behind a lot of the things that didn't become legal, and prestige classes do quite fit the bill for something that you'd unlock with a boon.
However, there's one thing that I'd really like to know: Prestigious Spellcaster. My impression is that allowing or disallowing it is a lot more of a fundamental decision about prestige classes than just a simple boon. Maybe it's still in committee, maybe there was a decision that this truly isn't wanted?
Paizo has a bit of a habit of not lavishing affection on prestige classes. Paths of Prestige seems to be a departure with this trend, and more books with prestige classes are in the pipeline. Paths of Prestige includes some casting PrCs with a dead level that seem to be begging for Prestigious Spellcaster, and being in the same book, it wasn't an unexpected combination that took the writers by surprise. I'm wondering if the next book is also going to have prestige classes for casters in it that were perhaps written with the assumption of Prestigious Spellcaster as an option. PrCs which might become a bit lackluster without that design assumption.
So I'm really curious what the PFS leadership on it is.
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)At which point does it go from "Oh, you saved this for a cool adventure reward" to "You performed a bait and switch"?
A reasonable position: Until a good opportunity to present it comes up. For example if you travel the spiral and that DOESN't crop up, the torch and pitchfork o meter clicks on
Another option: Two years to never. I mean, nothing may ever come up. Maybe if nothing crops up in 2 years it gets a review or released?
We've waited longer to punch grandmaster torch in the face...
Some people will foam at the mouth no matter what, but in this fan base its inevitable. ....NO i am not rabid. I had a latte this morning.
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So basically, where's the line between a heads-up and leaving people hanging for too long?
If there's not at least the intention to use it in the next 12 months, just call it "not legal at this time." If the chronicle boon allows rebuilds, it doesn't really matter if I built a character for the PrC with all the right skill and feat taxes, anyhow.
If there's the intention to release it within the remaining Season, call it "held to be released later this Season by Chronicle."
If there's intention to release it after the remains Season and less than 12 months, call it "held to be released next Season by Chronicle."
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If you're considering ALL the options as potentially available based on setting of of scenarios then I wouldn't call it a bait.
If you already know that something, prestigious spellcaster or Stargazer for example, are banned and aren't options because they don't fit the society I'd like it mentioned.
So if literally everything not listed is PFS approved and just waiting for a nice way to enter then you're good and the wording used was fine, since that's what it implies.
If stuff is PFS unapproved it would be what I'd like to know if such knowledge is available.
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So your preferred wording for the first line would be "The X and Y are not currently legal for play but are scheduled to be unlocked on scenario Chronicle sheets. Other content might also be unlocked as the team outlines more adventures" or something like that?I think it is because nothing was marked not legal for play that people aren't able to know if the stuff being withheld will actually be released eventually.
If you had marked them as "To create a Brewkeeper character, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the class as a legal option" it be a lot more clear that the class IS legal through some means and not banned.
So going along with that approach, I have several hypothetical situations whose outcomes seem unclear. I'll use the nonexistant Spiral Seer (a made-up Pharasman prestige class) in my examples.
1) I identify the spiral seer as one of the prestige classes to be unlocked on a Chronicle sheet because I know there are plans for it. Those plans won't come to fruition for at least three months, at which point that scenario unlocking the spiral witch is published. Are people amenable to having waited three months for that unlock? Six months? More? At which point does it go from "Oh, you saved this for a cool adventure reward" to "You performed a bait and switch"?
2) I identify the spiral seer as not being unlocked on a Chronicle sheet because I don't have a sense at this time whether I might have an appropriate adventure tie-in coming up. Some time from now, I find the perfect opportunity and add it. Have I been disingenuous because I didn't flag the spiral seer as a Chronicle sheet unlock, causing some players to abandon any attempt to build toward qualifying for the prestige class?
So basically, where's the line between a heads-up and leaving people hanging for too long?
I think it is more important to identify what is legal and what is not. If it is legal but requires access I know it will happen eventually. Otherwise I would know it will never happen if it just says it is not legal.
On a personal level I would expect classes which were withheld to be available within the next season. I probably would have chosen a better diversity of selection (it focused WAY too hard on the caster options and hurt people who like those.)
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If you're considering ALL the options as potentially available based on setting of of scenarios then I wouldn't call it a bait.
If you already know that something, prestigious spellcaster or Stargazer for example, are banned and aren't options because they don't fit the society I'd like it mentioned.
So if literally everything not listed is PFS approved and just waiting for a nice way to enter then you're good and the wording used was fine, since that's what it implies.
If stuff is PFS unapproved it would be what I'd like to know if such knowledge is available.
That is the most important thing to know: what's not going to be legal.
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I'm personally allright with prestige classes being locked behind a chronicle. They're rare, they're by definition prestigious, and they're typically a high-lore player option. I'm also glad to see a 'these others may/will appear on a chronicle sheet at a future date', and understand that a specific date is..unlikely to happen.
Myself, I have a player companion subscription, and therefore would've gotten Paths of the Righteous anyway. If I wasn't, I'd probably delay getting resources until AR is updated, as I know many people do.
I'd definately appreciate "X will become legal at some point, Y will never become legal", so people don't build a character up to 5th or 6th and then have the option they built for never appear. I'm personally more concerned with the feats that were banned- particurarly Bladed Brush and the Flame Blade Dervish feats. In the case of Brush, it's associated prestige class was allowed, but it wasn't.. which means it's not likely to be on a chronicle. The flame blade, I can see being unlocked along with it's PrC.
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This feels to me like a disconnect on the reasons for banning things from PFS. The only potential reasons for banning something as I understand it are:
1. Too powerful.
2. Not thematically appropriate for the Campaign. (i.e. Evil stuff.)
3. Planning on making it a boon soon.
You are definitely missing a category. Many things are banned not because they are too 'powerful', but because they are too complicated and/or subjective to uniformly implement.
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You are definitely missing a category. Many things are banned not because they are too 'powerful', but because they are too complicated and/or subjective to uniformly implement.This feels to me like a disconnect on the reasons for banning things from PFS. The only potential reasons for banning something as I understand it are:
1. Too powerful.
2. Not thematically appropriate for the Campaign. (i.e. Evil stuff.)
3. Planning on making it a boon soon.
Those are the four categories I use as well. Since I don't have anything to do with what is and isn't legal I usually play a game of "why did that get banned?" every time a new Additional Resources is released. Sometimes I post my thoughts on one or more items using those categories.
In the case of the Hinterlander (which someone mentioned above) I think it's partially 1 (power) but mainly 4 (uneven implementation in play). Power-wise it makes for a really good 3-level dip for any bow-focused character that has even one spell-casting level. Particularly for rangers.
The implementation problem comes with the favored terrain (hinterland) class feature and related abilities. It functions when you are within a 10 mile radius of a settlement of less than 2,000 individuals. "OK, I'm standing in Karcau but we passed some really small villages on our way in. They are less than 10 miles away so I get my bonuses even though I'm in an opera house in a metropolis." What if you're in a dungeon but there was a village about a mile from the dungeon entrance? And what counts as a "settlement" anyway? Does that one group of fey we passed count?
Sure, I can answer these questions but that doesn't mean that my answers will be the same as another GM - or that a player who planned on using those abilities will be happy and in agreement with my rulings.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Northwestern Indiana
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For Inner Sea Races, we still have the following language.
To create an aasimar, android, catfolk, changeling, dhampir, fetchling, goblin, grippli, ifrit, oread, ratfolk, samsaran, skinwalker, suli, sylph, tiefling, undine, vanara, or vishkanya character, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the race as a legal option at character creation. Aasimars and tieflings that were created and had at least one XP applied before August 14, 2014, remain legal for play.
Should not part of this be changed to reflect the fact that some of these races are now legal with the Advanced Race Guide and refer players to that book?
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So it looks like there is still information on missing. Upheld bans really need to be put there so that players aren't stuck searching through forums to find something that really should be easily findable in the additional resources list.
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Or give an example? I'm having trouble understanding what you mean.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Northwestern Indiana
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So it looks like there is still information on missing. Upheld bans really need to be put there so that players aren't stuck searching through forums to find something that really should be easily findable in the additional resources list.Can you clarify what you mean by this? Or give an example? I'm having trouble understanding what you mean.
Well, I did have a player ask if a half-elf of drow descent is legal as he wanted to make a Paladin of Ragathiel who truly hated the drow. (Bastards of Golarion says that the drow are particularly brutal to half-elves of drow stock.) Something like "No PFS character can be of drow descent or be designed to look like a drow." might be useful.
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The one that I noticed immediately is missing information regarding heritage restrictions from Bastards of Golarion. Namely the fact that at least one of them is covered in an upheld ban regarding evil things. Took me ages to even find out about that.
I looked through your older posts and I'm pretty sure it's covered.
All traits on pages 4–29 are legal, except azlanti inheritor, curse in the blood, evader, marked by unknown forces, mordant envoy, signature moves, and thinblood resilience.
That's the Drow trait and it's illegal.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Northwestern Indiana
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Also, I had a former player ask me what can a battle host occultist's panoply bond. Let me quote from D20PFSRD.
At 1st level, a battle host forms a supernatural bond with a specific weapon, suit of armor, or shield. This selection is permanent and can never be changed. The bonded item is masterwork quality and the battle host begins play with it at no cost.
Is there a limit on special materials, or the value of the equipment. For example, what about a suit of full plate armor or adamantine full plate armor? I told him that either broke the wealth by level rules, but there is no clarification on this ability.
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Also, I had a former player ask me what can a battle host occultist's panoply bond. Let me quote from D20PFSRD.
At 1st level, a battle host forms a supernatural bond with a specific weapon, suit of armor, or shield. This selection is permanent and can never be changed. The bonded item is masterwork quality and the battle host begins play with it at no cost.Is there a limit on special materials, or the value of the equipment. For example, what about a suit of full plate armor or adamantine full plate armor? I told him that either broke the wealth by level rules, but there is no clarification on this ability.
That's a question that probably needs an official answer (even though the answer is hopefully obvious). That belongs in Campaign Clarifications though, not Additional Resources.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Northwestern Indiana
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That's a question that probably needs an official answer (even though the answer is hopefully obvious). That belongs in Campaign Clarifications though, not Additional Resources.Also, I had a former player ask me what can a battle host occultist's panoply bond. Let me quote from D20PFSRD.
At 1st level, a battle host forms a supernatural bond with a specific weapon, suit of armor, or shield. This selection is permanent and can never be changed. The bonded item is masterwork quality and the battle host begins play with it at no cost.Is there a limit on special materials, or the value of the equipment. For example, what about a suit of full plate armor or adamantine full plate armor? I told him that either broke the wealth by level rules, but there is no clarification on this ability.
Maybe we can have some "basic questions" answered in campaign clarifications, as it took a while to clear up the no half-drow issue. However, I am glad to see the Additional Resources update.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I have to agree with you about improved familiars.
I managed to roll for a "Share the Wealth" boon at a convention, and have been hanging on to it for just such a contingency. It's my emergency back up plan.
** spoiler omitted **
I wish that there was some other way to transfer those... And I'd be okay if it required an expensive cost, like 20 prestige to do it. At the moment, the only other way to get those on the correct character after playing the adventure with the wrong one is to GM that adventure. For some people, that's okay. But others feel sad if they missed that adventure as a player.
Hmm
I very much agree some sort of general option for PP would be a good inclusion.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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If balance is the issue, I'm really hoping that Bladed Brush can be hit with some clarifications and opened up for use.
Yeah just to be on the save side a tiny campaing clarification (no spell combat, and no you dont actually get the ability to wield this in one hand) should be plenty.
Actually I have been planning a Devoted Muse for weeks now (archetype really didn't strike me as broken) and other weapons seem superior ( that class needs a lot of panache and a high crit range weapon would help refill those).. but I have kinda fallen for the class illustration and the feat.
Well there is always hope ^^
Yeah, it's a shame about the Bladed Brush. I don't think it was OP, but it clearly needed Clarification. Maybe it was only held back pending clarification and make it in next month? *hopeful*
Ever tried building a Glaive Bearing Daring Champion?
Double level to damage along with 1 1/2 times your STR and 3 to 1 power attack is only balanced if you consider martials to be otherwise unplayable.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Yeah, it's a shame about the Bladed Brush. I don't think it was OP, but it clearly needed Clarification. Maybe it was only held back pending clarification and make it in next month? *hopeful*Ever tried building a Glaive Bearing Daring Champion?
Double level to damage along with 1 1/2 times your STR and 3 to 1 power attack is only balanced if you consider martials to be otherwise unplayable.
Damage output of that build seems great but there are a couple of downsides:
- Compared to using a single weapon (that could be finessed and likely could access dex to damage without dipping 3 levels into rogue) with shield the AC is going to be significantly lower, so you might want to invest in heavy armor proficiency feats. Of course that kills your nimble class feature, so mithral breastplate might be the way to go.
- Without a dip into swashbuckler (and let's be honest that is a very likely to happen) you don't have parry.
- You are using a 20x3 crit weapon, so your chances to regain panache will be more limited. Every character I have seen at my tables, who had the panache class feature used a weapon that ended up with a 15-20 crit range as soon as possible.
Since the daring cavalier is pretty good even without this I am not sure that this would be such a direct upgrade, since you give up a significant chunk of defense and it really only works with a strength focussed build.
Performance seems about equal with a Barbarian who likely would use a better weapon or weapons since two-weapon fighting is also an option (and of course daring champions are usually not charge focussued and kill the boss with a single strike).
Venture-Captain, Netherlands
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If we're posting gripes here...
What is up with the nagaji artwork in blood of the beast? Why in creations name does it have to have *boobs*. Its from species that does not lactate, but either lays eggs or does live birth without feeding its young! Its completely unnecessary and as a biologist it just makes me mad.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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If we're posting gripes here...
What is up with the nagaji artwork in blood of the beast? Why in creations name does it have to have *boobs*. Its from species that does not lactate, but either lays eggs or does live birth without feeding its young! Its completely unnecessary and as a biologist it just makes me mad.
Thats' pretty much a blast of from the past, I remember when people were complaining about the same thing when D&D 4 had Dragonborne with mammaries^^
Even Order of the Stick made fun of it ^^
If course, in this case it could just be looted armor from one of those species that do lactate ^^ Maybe the armor sized for men just wasn't a good fit.
Personally, I really can't look at the cover.
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Contributor
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If we're posting gripes here...
What is up with the nagaji artwork in blood of the beast? Why in creations name does it have to have *boobs*. Its from species that does not lactate, but either lays eggs or does live birth without feeding its young! Its completely unnecessary and as a biologist it just makes me mad.
As the person who wrote that section, I can actually answer that!
The implication is that the Naga transformed humans into the first nagaji, and the nagaji retain many vestigial human characteristics to date. This is referenced in Blood of the Beasts on page 16 in the following quote:
and many display puzzling and often vestigial characteristics evocative of mammalian creatures.
Hope this helps!
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Yeah, it's a shame about the Bladed Brush. I don't think it was OP, but it clearly needed Clarification. Maybe it was only held back pending clarification and make it in next month? *hopeful*
Personally, I see Bladed Brush as essentially three Feats in one, with all the components themselves being on par with a Feat. All three together is pretty out there in my opinion, comparable to say Dervish Dance + Weapon Versatility + Another Feat all for one weapon.
B.) Can make it a One-Handed Weapon if desired (and deal either S or P)
C.) Can opt to make it a Reach or non-Reach weapon
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Contributor
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Note that Bladed Brush neither changes the weapon's classification nor damage type; you cannot use it to deal piercing damage or wield a glaive in only one hand. It only makes it count as a one-handed piercing/slashing weapon for abilities that call for such. It also does not apply Dexterity to damage.
Still a little more than an average feat, perhaps. (And whether that's a bad thing depends on your point of view, of course.) But it's not quite all of those things. ^_^
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Yeah, it's a shame about the Bladed Brush. I don't think it was OP, but it clearly needed Clarification. Maybe it was only held back pending clarification and make it in next month? *hopeful*Personally, I see Bladed Brush as essentially three Feats in one, with all the components themselves being on par with a Feat. All three together is pretty out there in my opinion, comparable to say Dervish Dance + Weapon Versatility + Another Feat all for one weapon.
** spoiler omitted **
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A finessable reach weapon is already published, the elven branched spear wich also has reach deal 1d8 points of damage and has crit 20x3.So this part could be a feat or a 1500 GP ioun stone or free if you are an elf^^
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Only for feats and class abilities, you can't actually wield the weapon in only one hand.
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That functionality is identical to the dwarven dorn-dergar, an exotic weapon that deals 1d10 x2 damage and allows you to switch your grip as a move action between reach weapon and normal mode.
And Dwarfs get it for free as well, so very similar to point n.1.
Also worth noting, that unchained rogue seems to be the only way to get dex to damage which somewhat reduces the effect of weapon finesse.