Worshipper(s) of all fiends


Advice


Be it for a character or a group to throw at a party down the road, I'd love to come up with a cohesive philosophy/religion/ect. that draws its tenants from aspects of all the fiendish races (Asura, daemon, demodand, demon, devil, div, kyton, oni, qlippoth, and rakshasa).

So, for such a system of belief; What sorts of tenants could there be? What conclusions could one come to taking into account the fiendish races, both individually and in relation to one another? Would any deities/demigods approve of such a faith?


I'll think of more later but you'd have to be Neutral Evil. It might be weird with Devil's law obsession but maybe we'll figure that out.


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This... is a very bad idea. These races are separated for various reasons. They do not mesh well together, and have wildly different goals and belief systems. This is like mixing Christianity with aztec human sacrifice rituals.

So a summary of the landscape:

Demons are about general impulse and destruction, while devils are about strict discipline, control, and domination. They don't need much explanation of who they are and why they don't get along- the classic 'sloppy room mate/stuck up room mate' situation.

The tenants of the qlippoth is "I hate all of you and will destroy all that lives in order to get you off of our damn lawn"- demons took over their realm. The problem with wiping out the demons is that new ones are born from mortal souls. Ergo, they seek to kill all mortals so they can cut off the supply and finally whittle down the opposition. So that should be tossed immediately, since they would very gladly kill you and any fiendish allies. They explicitly do not play well with demons, and they also kill all of the mortal follows of other races, which ticks off the 'rule over/enslave' crowds.

Daemons are about bring an end to everything, which might get them to work with the qlippoth for a time until it comes time to destroy the abyss. Div might work with daemons more generally, since they follow an 'end of all things' god and generally enjoy petty despoiling and spite that might happen along the way to destroying everything. Devils would generally be against daemons, and demons would (eventually) turn against them since they enjoy things existing (in the way you enjoy your sandwich existing, because it lets you savor it; they may destroy 'a' world, but only because there are others for them to enjoy later).

Rakshasas and oni are notable for being native outsiders, as in they stick around the mortal realm. They have strange reincarnation style stuff, but generally- they would be counter to any major attempts to shift the mortal world around since they both A.) Enjoy the pleasures of the mortal world. Wine, women, wealth, etc., and B.) They wouldn't want to risk their own power bases. So these groups might join with any single other fiendish race for short term goals, but ultimately they dislike the end goals of most fiendish races (annihilation, conversion to something ugly and broken, etc.).

Kytons might support taking over a world to make it all ...hellraiser-y, but they seem more limited in scope since they are more along the lines of an art collective following their own twisted desires. Maybe internal systems and hierarchies, but they ultimately seem more inclined towards small cells. Not suitable for joining with other groups, since they would be less inclined for all out battles, and more slow kidnappings and conversions to 'art pieces'.

Asura and demodands are the antigod factions, and might join in major movements to mess with the gods. Demodands, however, ultimately owe allegiance to their titan masters, and thus they are less inclined with destroying all existance movements and more inclined with general genocide and 'new slate' movements with their masters as the new head honchos. Asuras might join with large scale annhilation movements since it will shake the god's power bases, but once the gods are gone they would likely lose motivation. Devils do no play well with either, since they follow a god, and Asmodeus actually likes some of the gods.

In summary:
So the tenants you will need to reconcile are:
-destroy everything, including yourselves.
-isolationism that wants to kill off enough of everything else to be left alone
-enslave everything in make it in your image (with arguments over who is in charge, of course)
-enjoy the world as is as its beauty is a ripe fruit (with divisions on scale; some have the luxury to destroy worlds, while others want a world intact they can mess around in).
-worship of a god or gods (which divisions on which ones)
-attempts to destroy the gods, or at least other gods (that might be in the other fiendish factions

...so good luck with this. It is better just to pick two and reconcile those. It is easier just to have a vague cult into murder and thinks evil rocks and has no clue about different varieties- simple ignorance and conflation is easier than actual structured belief systems for this.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Omnism


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As a note- good is easier to have pantheism about. You can get them to generally agree on some base things at least.

"Donate some money to the blind/death orphans? Sure!"- details over whether you should set up a trust fund for the orphans or robin hood up some supplies might vary, but the various parties would never entirely lose sight of their goal and would still do upkeep of the kids while trying to argue or set things up.

That is actually the main advantage of good- they, along with some of the neutral gods that don't want their power bases to get destroyed in the crossfire, can generally get at least some basic cohesion and work together. Evil is more numerous in terms of troops and 'experts', and might generally be stronger on average, but they have far, far too many internal conflicts to mount a unified effort.

Heck, in setting, all it took was calistria lighting a few flames to stop the demon lords from rising together after Desna pulled off an brazen kill of a demonlord (Aolar). Demon lords are not exactly the best 'lets get along' faction, of course, but they should have still been bound by the 'lets not let those gods just waltz in and murder us' cause. So as you can see, massive power grabs, grudges and ideological rifts can exist even within the same race... so how could you get an ideology that binds together a dozen races whose attitudes and general mindsets are inscribed into their very beings and instincts?

So really... I'd like to see an attempt since the catastrophic collapse of an attempted unified cult would be hilarious, and would make a decent adventure seed since you would have such varied creatures running about and you could even set up battle royals (since DOOM is still fantastic for getting the demons to fight eachother).


You are right in that it would likely have trouble getting together given just how diverse fiends are and how they typically don't all get along in the least. That being said, viewing them as a pantheon could certainly work as a route; Not all gods in a pantheon need to agree/like eachother/ect.

All of the fiendish races embody something, whether they are paragons or not. Such a faith could easily hold opposition to the gods in general as one aspect;

Asura: These fiends are manifestations of divine error. Proof that even gods falter, and that mistakes can take a life of their own.
Daemon: These fiends are manifestations of death. All things end, after all. The gods will be no different.
Demodand: These fiends are shaped by the arrogance of the titans. Evidence that gods are not alone in their capacity to create.
Demon: These fiends are manifestations of sin. Violating divine law in of itself can be a force of change.
Devil: These fiends are manifestations of heresy and advocates of utter law. They began as defiance their creator's brother, a god of benevolence and freedom, and were shaped by the first act of treachery.
Div: These fiends are manifestations of destruction. The gods may favor the deeds of mortals, but have ignored the efforts of those more deserving.
Kyton: These fiends are manifestations of depravity. The gods sought to bind them for eternity, yet they freed themselves.
Oni: These fiends are manifestations of rage and despair, but turn to indulging themselves. Those who didn't live up to the god's expectations were punished.
Qlippoth: These fiends embody, in a sense, madness. They are perhaps not of this sphere, and have existed long before the gods.
[b]Rakshasa:/b] These fiends are manifestations of decadence and debauchery. While they acknowledge gods exist and are indeed powerful, they hold that too often beings have ascended to such a state by ambition, power, or mere luck for divinity to be taken seriously.

So; Godhood is just a state that can be attained, they are prone to error like anyone or anything else, they can create but so can others, they aren't the oldest things around by far, they have proven to be petty and do not give credit where credit is due, they can be defied in spite of their power and the high pedestal they are placed upon, defying them is a force of change and creation in of itself, and one day they too shall die (some even already have).

And as an aside to above; If you aim to kill the gods and turn all mortals into (preferably evil) outsiders on the material plane, would any of the fiends get upset?


Like Lemeres I think you're asking for the (probably) impossible. The various evil outsiders' perspectives and goals don't mesh well. The real problem is then that you want a cohesive philosophy for this individual or group. You're better off with willingly subservient followers who simply seek to do deliberate evil in the name of whoever comes along to guide them purely and solely for its own sake. Like Minions but, you know, actually badass. Mercenary-Cultists, really.


Oni and Ashura might be able to find commonalities.

The nature of oni is that they were once servants of the gods, and chose to give up that duty in order to pursue the pleasures of the mortal realm.

Basically: "This is the PERFECT ICECREAM CONE, with magically perfect temperature, consistancy, and spread of sprinkles. You are to eternally guard this cone and allow mortals to have lick. But you may not taste it."

Roll ahead 10,000 years: "I HAVE GUARDED AND HAD TO STARE AT THIS DAMN ICECREAM FOR CENTURIES- I DESERVE TO HAVE SOME! GET OUT OF MY WAY MORTALS, YOU DON'T DESERVE THIS MINE MINE MINE!"

In more concrete terms, it is kind of a classic robot rebellion, only the robots have found the means to download their minds into their minds into humans. They are servants with no means to experience the pleasures they are designed to provide, and that is a terrible state of existence. So yeah... they might agree that the gods don't exactly have the best ideas. But they are still bound somewhat by their 'programming' (the laws of golden perfection), so they might find it difficult to actively plan revolution.

In comparison, rakshasa are humans that found a way to download their minds into new bodies (whether robot or clone). They are very attached to living (although the specific life might not matter as much since they can reincarnate). They don't think highly of the gods that assigned them to that whole 'death' nonsense, but they don't take it too personally. They think they know better, but don't really see the need to make a big deal about it and pick a fight like ashura.

Sidenote:
it would generaly be less complicated if you picked 2-3 races and just worked from there. You can go ahead and try the panteon thing, but I am going to chalk it up to the 'bad idea' pile for the characters involved in actually accomplishing this. But... fiend worship usually goes into that same pile (y'know, soul contracts and dealing with known backstabbers and all). So feel free.

My character would like to known when you are planning to do a big ritual/summoning thing. So he can get into a bunker. In another country. On another planet.

EDIT- I love Arcane Addict's suggestion: cultists for hire. For when you need 12 children slaughtered at the exact same time, but those pesky adventurers killed your 12th guy. Our temporary associates are highly skilled in the arts of butchery, dissection, interior design using blood, sychronized chanting, and much, much more! Call today, and we will include a starter kit for basic fiendish rituals.


Given some thought, I am actually rather liking the idea of merc. cultists. Could be an amusing element to explore; One week a party busts up a cult devoted to Orcus, later finds a familiar face at some ritual for Mammon, then sees him at some party only to find some plot in honor of Apollyon being at play... Could be amusing.

2-3 races are.. likely the easiest to reconcile, i'll agree. One could group them by plane/alignment, how they come into being, some vague aspect as to their goals, ect.

Edit: Suddenly the Insinuator comes to mind. While I wish that also had a form for other divine casters, it actually works. They all offer power, make a deal with who you agree with that day.


Yeah, it is much easier to have someone that wheels and deals with all the fiends and pays them lip service than it is to have legit belief in all of them. Just think of each races as a tool that is a means to your end. Get each tool to fit the right job.

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