So, as I am starting a new game I am thinking about adding some house rules to my repertoire.
First is I am adding a sorcerer bloodline to allow one of my players to realize her concept of master and familiar growing together in magic.
It is here
Second I am eliminating the increase in casting time for sorcerers using metamagic.
Third I am toying with the idea of giving sorcerers wizard progression in spells. While also adjusting spells per day. Table is here.
Fourth I am adjusting the rate at which sorcerers gain bloodline powers and feats. This will result in sorcerers getting two more feats and one more power over the course of their career.
Lastly I am going to give sorcerers their bloodline spells at the level where they gain the ability to cast that spell level.
Please check out at least the table under the "new sorcerer" tab and feel free to give me feedback, as it is both welcome and wanted.
1. The bloodline seems reasonably balanced, although it doesn't seem like a bloodline in the traditional sense.
2. That seems fine.
3. I'd leave this alone. Casting 1 level behind a wizard is the biggest handicap to playing a sorcerer, and that's okay. Sorcerer is still one of the strongest classes and you're giving lots of other nice benefits.
4. This is strong, but probably okay. I like extra feats.
5. I like this change and have made the same houserule. (Why should Oracles be the only one to get their extra spells on time?)
Oh, and if you want to go further in showering this sorcerer player with a bunch of nice things, might I suggest bumping up their skills per level to 4+ Int? Or maybe make a trait available that grants an extra skill point at every level.
1. The bloodline seems reasonably balanced, although it doesn't seem like a bloodline in the traditional sense.
2. That seems fine.
3. I'd leave this alone. Casting 1 level behind a wizard is the biggest handicap to playing a sorcerer, and that's okay. Sorcerer is still one of the strongest classes and you're giving lots of other nice benefits.
4. This is strong, but probably okay. I like extra feats.
5. I like this change and have made the same houserule. (Why should Oracles be the only one to get their extra spells on time?)
Oh, and if you want to go further in showering this sorcerer player with a bunch of nice things, might I suggest bumping up their skills per level to 4+ Int? Or maybe make a trait available that grants an extra skill point at every level.
Thank you for your feedback!
So, you feel that even with reduced spells per day a sorcerer should not get the same spell progression as a wizard?
For skills we have a house rule that as long as you are not an int based full caster you get 4 + skills minimum, however we leave int based casters at 2 + skills.
Thank you again!
Second I am eliminating the increase in casting time for sorcerers using metamagic.
Third I am toying with the idea of giving sorcerers wizard progression in spells. While also adjusting spells per day. Table is here.
Fourth I am adjusting the rate at which sorcerers gain bloodline powers and feats. This will result in sorcerers getting two more feats and one more power over the course of their career.
Lastly I am going to give sorcerers their bloodline spells at the level where they gain the ability to cast that spell level.
Looks good. Glad to see people taking steps to not screw the sorcerers.
I hope you'll take similar steps for Oracles regarding their casting progression.
First, thank you for your feedback!
I will of course change Oracles to something similar if not identical when and if someone at my table wants to play one.
Do you feel the sorcerer is a viable option to wizard with these changes even with the reduced spells per day?
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Anecdotally, I give sorcerers their bonus spells when a wizard would normally get a spell of that level (1st, 3rd, 5th, etc.), and also give them the eldritch blast stuff from the 3.5e warlock, and also amped up their bloodline powers... and they're still not quite as good as wizards and clerics.
Ok ty!
Too each their own. Are there other full casters in the party she'll be comparing herself too? If not, then I'd say leave it alone. It's an enjoyable class that contributes a lot to a party.
But is she standing next to a wizard, a cleric and a druid? Then sure, I'd be more inclined to let her have spell levels early, just because of the disappointment of being behind others.
So, as I am starting a new game I am thinking about adding some house rules to my repertoire.
First is I am adding a sorcerer bloodline to allow one of my players to realize her concept of master and familiar growing together in magic.
It is here
Second I am eliminating the increase in casting time for sorcerers using metamagic.
Third I am toying with the idea of giving sorcerers wizard progression in spells. While also adjusting spells per day. Table is here.
Fourth I am adjusting the rate at which sorcerers gain bloodline powers and feats. This will result in sorcerers getting two more feats and one more power over the course of their career.
Lastly I am going to give sorcerers their bloodline spells at the level where they gain the ability to cast that spell level.
Please check out at least the table under the "new sorcerer" tab and feel free to give me feedback, as it is both welcome and wanted.
I definitely would not bother playing a wizard in your game.
1) For bloodline spells, I'd go with a selection of spells that a player would want to use on a regular basis. Maybe spells with druidic flavor that can be used to buff the familiar?
The 12th level power is too powerful.
If a class feature improves a feat, that feat should be a set bonus feat.
While using existing rules is generally good design, I think you would be well-advised to move away from all those familiar feats and spells and come up with some unique features that don't exist yet. For example, I'd expect a power that allows the caster to take control of his familiar's body. Maybe they could also share teamwork feats, similar to the hunter and her animal companion?
I'm not convinced that 2) is really necessary. Applying metamagic on the fly is a big advantage spontaneous casters have over prepared casters and the opportunity cost of having to cast as a full-round action seems reasonable to me. Maybe restrict it to bloodline spells or spells that target the familiar? (By the way, I tried to implement metamagic feats in a way that feels more organic when I created my alternate version of the sorcerer, the maniac).
Regarding 3) and 4), I think the delayed casting progression opens up design space for more interesting abilities. I don't know if bloodline powers (at least in part) are supposed to make up for the delayed casting progression, but I think that is what I would focus on. However, most bloodline bonus feats don't make a lot of sense for spellcasters, so I'm not sure that having more of these feats is really that helpful.
I agree with 5)
I feel like your familiar being treated as four levels higher is a bit too much, considering what else the arcana gives. Other arcana give a +1 bonus to damage per damage dice if a spell does a certain energy type, or a +1 to the save DC of a spell you use a metamagic feat on. The arcana does way too much.
Anecdotally, I give sorcerers their bonus spells when a wizard would normally get a spell of that level (1st, 3rd, 5th, etc.), and also give them the eldritch blast stuff from the 3.5e warlock, and also amped up their bloodline powers... and they're still not quite as good as wizards and clerics.
Thank you Kirth! I appreciate the feedback, especially from someone who wrote something like Kirthfinder.
I did in return for the extra two feat, extra bloodline power, and earlier spell access change their spells per day to start at 2 rather than 3 and end at 5 rather than 6.
This puts the sorcerer at most 2 spells per day ahead of a wizard without a bonded item, and at most 1 spell ahead of a wizard with a bonded item.
Do you feel this is too much of a weakening of the class?
My thoughts were that a sorcerer would have the advantage of metamagic on the fly and the ability to mix and match from his limited spells know, while the wizard would have the advantage of being able to use any spell from his spell book meaning he would if given time to prepare or retreat be much more likely to have a "silver bullet" spell.
Too each their own. Are there other full casters in the party she'll be comparing herself too? If not, then I'd say leave it alone. It's an enjoyable class that contributes a lot to a party.
But is she standing next to a wizard, a cleric and a druid? Then sure, I'd be more inclined to let her have spell levels early, just because of the disappointment of being behind others.
Thank you again for taking the time to comment and share your opinion. I do appreciate it.
There will be other full casters in the game yes.
I definitely would not bother playing a wizard in your game.
I respect your opinion, but may I have a more thorough breakdown of why you feel this way?
I am very open to feedback and willing to consider multiple viewpoints.
1) For bloodline spells, I'd go with a selection of spells that a player would want to use on a regular basis. Maybe spells with druidic flavor that can be used to buff the familiar?
The 12th level power is too powerful.
If a class feature improves a feat, that feat should be a set bonus feat.
While using existing rules is generally good design, I think you would be well-advised to move away from all those familiar feats and spells and come up with some unique features that don't exist yet. For example, I'd expect a power that allows the caster to take control of his familiar's body. Maybe they could also share teamwork feats, similar to the hunter and her animal companion?I'm not convinced that 2) is really necessary. Applying metamagic on the fly is a big advantage spontaneous casters have over prepared casters and the opportunity cost of having to cast as a full-round action seems reasonable to me. Maybe restrict it to bloodline spells or spells that target the familiar? (By the way, I tried to implement metamagic feats in a way that feels more organic when I created my alternate version of the sorcerer, the maniac).
Regarding 3) and 4), I think the delayed casting progression opens up design space for more interesting abilities. I don't know if bloodline powers (at least in part) are supposed to make up for the delayed casting progression, but I think that is what I would focus on. However, most bloodline bonus feats don't make a lot of sense for spellcasters, so I'm not sure that having more of these feats is really that helpful.
I agree with 5)
Thank you for your detailed feedback!
May I ask why you feel the 12th level power is too much? I based it on the 15th level power from the arcane bloodline, but bumped to 12th as I would reduce the level of that power if I rewrote the arcane bloodline.
Full disclosure: The last time my player played this character she was arcane.
I see what you mean about the bonuses to familiar spell the possibility of a player not taking it. I did deliberately give benefits besides the boost to familiar spell at those levels so a player who took other things would not be "punished" for not taking it. I was trying to leave it flexible enough to allow several builds, but I do see what you mean.
For the familiar body sharing the theme was more of a collaboration rather than a one over the other, but I did include both of the share skin spells.
I did avoid teamwork feats due to them being more geared towards martial activities, while there are some decent teamwork feats for casters they are mostly martial focused. Standouts would be Allied spell caster, shake it off, and possibly spell chain. I did not feel this was enough to make it an integral part of the bloodline.
Thanks again.
I feel like your familiar being treated as four levels higher is a bit too much, considering what else the arcana gives. Other arcana give a +1 bonus to damage per damage dice if a spell does a certain energy type, or a +1 to the save DC of a spell you use a metamagic feat on. The arcana does way too much.
First thank you for your feedback. I see what you mean. I am slightly worried about this and may end up stripping it out, however all of my players are extremely good natured and have no problem with the fact that any homebrew may need to be adjusted in between sessions if there are issues.
It was mainly to allow a familiar to be smarter so that my player always had a cognizant companion.
WOW! Your sorcerers are going to be blowing stuff up big time. I feel like sorcerers are balanced as is. They cast loads of spells, that is why they are behind wizards in spell progression. I really wouldn't mess with them too much or they will start steamrolling your game. On the bright side I really like your custom bloodline.
IMHO, spellcasting classes already have enough advantages in PF, and really don't need any extra handholding. Your sorcerer buffs are too extreme. They don't need them. Really.
The sorcerer class is already very, very powerful, compared to almost any other class that isn't a full wizard. And they even have some cool advantages over wizards. Plus oodles of ways to use clever items to get out of the limitations of spells known.
This said, have fun with it if it works for you.
WOW! Your sorcerers are going to be blowing stuff up big time. I feel like sorcerers are balanced as is. They cast loads of spells, that is why they are behind wizards in spell progression. I really wouldn't mess with them too much or they will start steamrolling your game. On the bright side I really like your custom bloodline.
Thank you for your feedback!
Did you see that I had reduced the sorcerers spells per day?
A sorcerer and wizard should now be just about even at every level in total amounts of spells castable per day.
Thank you as well for the praise on the bloodline, is there anything you would change?
IMHO, spellcasting classes already have enough advantages in PF, and really don't need any extra handholding. Your sorcerer buffs are too extreme. They don't need them. Really.
The sorcerer class is already very, very powerful, compared to almost any other class that isn't a full wizard. And they even have some cool advantages over wizards. Plus oodles of ways to use clever items to get out of the limitations of spells known.
This said, have fun with it if it works for you.
Thank you for your time and feedback!
I would agree that most casters are already very very powerful.
Would you be willing to give me examples of ways that my changes would be unbalancing? I am not trying to be confrontational I really am just looking for honest and constructive criticism so I can improve.
In our game, for sorcerers (and oracles) we move the spells cast table up one, but keep the spells known the same. So at third level, they have second level slots, but no second level spells. They also get the Heighten Spell feat free at third level, so the 2nd level slots are filled with heightened first level spells.
This makes spontaneous casters able to cast more but a lesser variety of spells than their prepared counterparts.
May I ask why you feel the 12th level power is too much? I based it on the 15th level power from the arcane bloodline, but bumped to 12th as I would reduce the level of that power if I rewrote the arcane bloodline.
Arcane bloodline gives a hefty (and mostly unnecessary) bonus to spell DC for one school at 15th level; you grant the same bonus at 12th for all spells, at the cost of the familiar's standard action [by the way, it's also unclear how aid another works with spells--does the familiar have to make a DC 10 caster level check?]. It also incentivizes players not to make use of their familiar in more interesting ways, which undermines the general theme of this bloodline. Maybe the bonus only applies to touch spells delivered by the sorcerer's familiar?