| Kaoshin |
Quick and potentially silly question, but asking on the fly while I DM a game. This monster's coming up real soon so just want to check. I need to make a crocodile a giant crocodile which from what I understand means giving the crocodile on the OGC the giant template. My question then is do I both give the stat modifiers for the giant template AND the changes in stats from going from large to huge, or does the croc only get the changes in ability modifiers, natural armor, and so on from the template?
Justin Sluder
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Only the template.
Edit to add...
Giant Crocodile CR 3
XP 800
N Huge animal
Init +0; Senses low-light vision; Perception +8
DEFENSE
AC 15, touch 8, flat-footed 15 (+7 natural, -2 size)
hp 28 (3d8+15)
Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft., swim 30 ft.; sprint
Melee bite +6 (2d6+6 plus grab) and tail slap +1 (3d6+3)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks death roll (2d6+9 plus trip)
STATISTICS
Str 23, Dex 10, Con 21, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Base Atk +2; CMB +10 (+14 grapple); CMD 20 (24 vs. trip)
Feats Skill Focus (Perception, Stealth)
Skills Perception +8, Stealth +0 (+8 in water), Swim +14; Racial Modifiers +8 Stealth in water
SQ hold breath (84 rounds)
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Death Roll (Ex) When grappling a foe of its size or smaller, a crocodile can perform a death roll upon making a successful grapple check. As it clings to its foe, it tucks in its legs and rolls rapidly, twisting and wrenching its victim. The crocodile inflicts its bite damage and knocks the creature prone. If successful, the crocodile maintains its grapple.
Hold Breath (Ex) A crocodile can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times its Constitution score before it risks drowning.
Sprint (Ex) Once per minute a crocodile may sprint, increasing its land speed to 40 feet for 1 round.
| Kaoshin |
Only the template.
Edit to add...
Giant Crocodile CR 3
XP 800
N Huge animal
Init +0; Senses low-light vision; Perception +8
DEFENSE
AC 15, touch 8, flat-footed 15 (+7 natural, -2 size)
hp 28 (3d8+15)
Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft., swim 30 ft.; sprint
Melee bite +6 (2d6+6 plus grab) and tail slap +1 (3d6+3)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks death roll (2d6+9 plus trip)
STATISTICS
Str 23, Dex 10, Con 21, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Base Atk +2; CMB +10 (+14 grapple); CMD 20 (24 vs. trip)
Feats Skill Focus (Perception, Stealth)
Skills Perception +8, Stealth +0 (+8 in water), Swim +14; Racial Modifiers +8 Stealth in water
SQ hold breath (84 rounds)
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Death Roll (Ex) When grappling a foe of its size or smaller, a crocodile can perform a death roll upon making a successful grapple check. As it clings to its foe, it tucks in its legs and rolls rapidly, twisting and wrenching its victim. The crocodile inflicts its bite damage and knocks the creature prone. If successful, the crocodile maintains its grapple.
Hold Breath (Ex) A crocodile can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times its Constitution score before it risks drowning.
Sprint (Ex) Once per minute a crocodile may sprint, increasing its land speed to 40 feet for 1 round.
Good I was really worried about the party if it was adding a net +12 to the thing's strength heheh. Thank you :)
| BW-Green |
AC 15, touch 8, flat-footed 15 (+7 natural, -2 size)
I was under that impression too until I found this post from James Jacobs.
The Giant template (all the simple templates, really) work best when you're in the middle of the game and need to adjust a stat block quickly and on the fly. When the simple template says "increase size" that just means it takes up the correspondingly larger space and reach, really—the streamlined stat changes that come with the Giant simple template replace the more accurate ones you'd use if you were rebuilding from scratch.
If you're building a creature beforehand, you should manually increase the creature's size by just rebuilding the creature and applying all the size changes by hand, as described on pages 295–296 for "adding Racial Hit Dice." The result is not only a lot more accurate stat wise, but it also allows you to adjust the CR a lot more accurately based specifically on the monster's actual stats and how they line up with table 1–1.
So if you add the Giant template you do not modify the existing size modifier of the base creature (resulting in a slightly higher AC and Attack Bonus and a slightly lower CMB&CMD)