So considering taking a level 1 dip into wizard (I realize it is a bad idea, this is not the forum for the "DON'T DO IT")
I have some mechanical questions about taking the dip
#1: Does the arcane bond only apply to the wizard spell casting (not the arcanist)? So without the bond can still cast arcanist spells w/o the concentration checks, can only use the "spell ability" for level 1 wizard spells, etc...
2# would I need to keep 2 spell books, or could I have just one, if two how hard to transfer spells between them
3# Would the choosing the Bond prevent me from getting a familiar from some other source (Eldritch Heritage or Arcane Exploit)
4# Could I still "upgrade" the bond (Free feats/only usable on bond) based on arcanist CL?
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No. You're only a 1st level wizard as far as the bond is concerned.
The sum of these answers is why it's a bad idea.
It's 3 & 4 that are issues with me more than 1 & 2
I have to disagree with Drahliana on #1. If sorcerer arcanas, which don't saying you cast sorcerer spells but rather when you cast a spell, apply to all spellcasting you might be able to have access too, then this line means you'd need your arcane bond to cast spells as an Arcanist.
"If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell."
Strangely, I cannot find the text that prevents your from having a bonded item and then gaining a familiar, though I am sure it exists/existed.
I have to disagree with Drahliana on #1. If sorcerer arcanas, which don't saying you cast sorcerer spells but rather when you cast a spell, apply to all spellcasting you might be able to have access too, then this line means you'd need your arcane bond to cast spells as an Arcanist.
"If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell."
The arcane bond is a class feature ONLY for the wizard part of the package. It has nothing to do in any way, shape, or form for the arcanist side of things. This also means that it can only draw it's one/day spells from the wizard spell book, not the arcanist one.
That we agree on. I wouldn't let a wizard's bonded item let them cast a spell from their Arcanist side, but the fact remains that penalties for not having the arcane bond applies to all your spellcasting, even divine.
That we agree on. I wouldn't let a wizard's bonded item let them cast a spell from their Arcanist side, but the fact remains that penalties for not having the arcane bond applies to all your spellcasting, even divine.
There's nothing to substantiate that. The text you're referring to describes a class feature so it only impacts within that class.
The arcanist is not the same class as the wizard.
Bloodline Arcanas are a class feature that apply to other spellcasting classes, so there is a precedent. Further, it does not say "if the wizard attempts to cast a wizard spell," which would limit it like you say.
Magus Spell Combat and Spellstrike are both class features that can't be used with spells from other class lists, so there's precedent for limiting it.
This logic does not follow - neither class is the Wizard or Arcanist, so how their specific mechanics function with other class spells is not relevant to the topic.
Bloodline Arcanas are a class feature that apply to other spellcasting classes, so there is a precedent. Further, it does not say "if the wizard attempts to cast a wizard spell," which would limit it like you say.
Because the general assumption is that you're only using a class feature within the class it derives from. Since the text is describing a wizard class feature, the default assumption is that you are casting nothing but wizard spells.
|
2: I don't think you would need separate spell books. It's just paper... what you write on each page is entirely your own affair. Wizard spell, alchemist formula, treasure map, doodles, whatever.
4: I'd allow Arcanist levels to qualify. The text says that you must meet the level pre-requisite of the feat... arcanist (or any other) caster levels can do that.
So let me talk about my goals for a minute: I'm trying to save on feats for making a Magic Weapon/Magic Staff (The arcane bond).
The way I was hoping it would be
1) yes: I do not want to be saddled with the limitation in general (But having the couple level one spells it would apply to is fine)
2) A trivial issue, but was curious
3) No, would prefer to be able to get a familiar
4) The big issue for me, as I am trying to get the free feats
I cannot find any rules support for Drahliana's answer to the 3rd question. You can't trade your bonded object in for a familiar (without retraining) or count your Wizard level towards the abilities of your familiar, but selecting a bonded object definitely does not stop you from gaining a familiar via one or more feats or via the Arcanist exploit.
But in regard to your general goal: If your interest is in crafting your own magic staff and you are not already overextended with your exploit choices, take a look at Arcane Weapon and Item Crafting. Arcane Weapon lets you temporarily enhance a weapon you carry for your personal use, while Item Crafting lets you select Craft Staff as a bonus feat, both without losing any casting levels or using up your general feats.
Magus Spell Combat and Spellstrike are both class features that can't be used with spells from other class lists, so there's precedent for limiting it.
This logic does not follow - neither class is the Wizard or Arcanist, so how their specific mechanics function with other class spells is not relevant to the topic.
Thank you for helping my examples, actually. Both Spell Combat and Spellstrike specify it must be a spell from the magus list, instead of just "a spell" like Arcane Bond. :)
I cannot find any rules support for Drahliana's answer to the 3rd question. You can't trade your bonded object in for a familiar (without retraining) or count your Wizard level towards the abilities of your familiar, but selecting a bonded object definitely does not stop you from gaining a familiar via one or more feats or via the Arcanist exploit.
The only thing I've find is the Arcane Bond bloodline power, so you can't get it with Eldritch Heritage(Arcane).
There is an Arcanist Exploit called Familiar. It explicitly does stack Arcanist levels with levels in another class (such as Wizard) that grants a familiar.
Since the effective level of a familiar granted by Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) is based strictly on your character level, there is no reason to try to combine that option with any other method for gaining a familiar.
Doesn't the Arcane Bond ability itself specify you cannot ever have both an object and a familiar no matter the source?
You might want to look into VMC Wizard instead of a dip, if you hadn't yet considered that. It would alleviate some of your issues. I do realize you basically want to get a free Craft Magic Weapon/Staff out of this though so it might well not be up your alley at all.
Doesn't the Arcane Bond ability itself specify you cannot ever have both an object and a familiar no matter the source?
I cannot find any such statement in the PRD entry for the Wizard class.
There is such a statement in the Arcane Bond entry under the Arcane bloodline for the Sorcerer, but that would not be relevant to a Wizard/Arcanist who has no Sorcerer levels, is not a VMC Sorcerer, and did not take the Eldritch Heritage feat.
Doesn't the Arcane Bond ability itself specify you cannot ever have both an object and a familiar no matter the source?I cannot find any such statement in the PRD.
Look up overlapping class features.
Look up overlapping class features.Doesn't the Arcane Bond ability itself specify you cannot ever have both an object and a familiar no matter the source?I cannot find any such statement in the PRD.
And that is relevant how? Only the Wizard has Arcane Bond as an explicit class feature. The only Arcane Bond ability that prohibits taking a bonded object and a familiar at the same time is the 1st level Arcane bloodline ability of the Sorcerer class. For a character with no Sorcerer bloodline, there is no reason to even look at the text of that bloodline.
Jason -- Have you considered the Blood Arcanist archetype? That archetype gives you what you want from that Wizard level dip at a lower cost. Select the Arcane bloodline as your bloodline and you can have a staff as your bonded item from 1st level with no further complications beyond losing some exploits and eventually having one useless bloodline ability (as you have no "spells known" that you can add spells to). You may want to look into selecting a bloodline mutation to replace that one useless ability.
Blood Arcanist is not an option. The Exploit is something to consider
Magus Spell Combat and Spellstrike are both class features that can't be used with spells from other class lists, so there's precedent for limiting it.
This logic does not follow - neither class is the Wizard or Arcanist, so how their specific mechanics function with other class spells is not relevant to the topic.
Thank you for helping my examples, actually. Both Spell Combat and Spellstrike specify it must be a spell from the magus list, instead of just "a spell" like Arcane Bond. :)
If I was trying to argue that it was comparable because the magus also didn't specify whether it worked or not you would have a point, but that wasn't my argument at all. Claiming that Arcane Bond affects spellcasting from other lists because Bloodline Arcana do is just as arbitrary as stating that they don't because the Magus class features don't.
If your argument was true it would mean a multiclassed Cleric/Sorcerer would need to meditate for an hour while praying to regain Sorcerer spells because the Cleric page only says "Each cleric must choose a time when she must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain her daily allotment of spells" and that passage doesn't specify "cleric spells". It would imply that a multiclass Druid/Kineticist who wears metal armor would lose their Kinetic Blast abilities because the Druid prohibition states they are "unable to cast druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter" and Kinetic Blast is a "spell-like class ability".
Using Bloodline Arcana to justify a reading where not having Arcane Bond affects all spells regardless of class is not a logical argument because you are using one class's features to justify a harsh reading of a completely different feature from a completely different class. The abilities are not similar or even vaguely related to each other - how one works has nothing to do with how the other works.
I see I will not be able to change your kind with my RAW and FAQ based readings, so I'll just leave what I've said at that.
I asked my GM tonight, he is willing to let me get what I want (iirc the wording, told him I would check tonight on one issue). Thank you for your imput.
BTW: I did some more reading, you cannot use the arcanist exploit for a familiar if you have chosen bond. It's in the txt of parent classes
To Summarize ramifications as I understand things
I will gain the full effect of the Universalist School (thanks to an arcane exploit I already have)
I will gain the first level casting ability of a Wizard, these will be basically locked at first level (1+1 extra first level spells, more 0 level known)
Will gain the Craft Scrolls Feat
I will gain a Arcane Bond. The Arcane Bond will allow me to choose any level 1 spell from the Wizard side (which, lets be honest, will have all my arcanist spells in it after some down time)
I will not have to roll a concentration roll for arcanist spells (Per GM Ruling)
Will gain a group of free arcanist first level spells known (see above-Of course I will choose different spells)
The bond may or not be able to use the Arcanist CL for adding abilities
Unable to get a familiar without going to extraordinary means
---------------------------
Additional question: Is spell preparation always 1 hour, or is it 1 hour per class?