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So what about an unchained rogue as the martial?
Advanced rogue talent they get quick shot. How can we maximize our chances of winning off this one attack at the start of combat?
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PRD is just RPG-line books and Technology Guide.
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OK, here is a first pass at a level 20 Martial. It is very much just a rough draft at the moment, especially as concerns equipment. It definitely needs some back up weapons but probably needs to lose some stuff first to afford them. I have been rather liberal in my interpretation of what she can craft with craft clothing.
She remains pretty hosed against fickle winds so I ended up dipping a few levels of unchained rogue and barbarian to increase her melee damage output. Her will save isn't as high as I would like but she largely beats the lantern archon spam or balor gating plans above.
The stat bock includes the effects of mutagen, rage, haste boots and point blank shot and assumes she is always using power attack, deadly aim, manyshot and/or rapid shot as appropriate.
** spoiler omitted **...
Keep in mind for wealth you don't half the cost of the items you create. You increase your starting wealth by 25% for one crafting feat or by 50% if you have more than one.
Otherwise it looks pretty good.
Also keep in mind in my Build for a Sorcerer the Balor's are more for fun than as a threat. The main threat is still the mindblanked, greater invisibility Sorcerer and Roc who are flying around; That and the fact a fighter has to make a Will save against DC 34 Dominate Monster and if they hit a certain threshold of HP they get hit with Power Word Blind or Stun.
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Also keep in mind in my Build for a Sorcerer the Balor's are more for fun than as a threat. The main threat is still the mindblanked, greater invisibility Sorcerer and Roc who are flying around; That and the fact a fighter has to make a Will save against DC 34 Dominate Monster and if they hit a certain threshold of HP they get hit with Power Word Blind or Stun.Absolutely, I am more than familiar with the options available to high level casters and I think pretty much any pure martial presented here is likely to be outmatched by any full caster you choose to present from about level 8 onwards.
That just gets more and more apparent as the levels rise.
Fair enough with the crafting rules. I guess i should have a pile more gold than i gave myself then.
I only mentioned it since that was part of the Balor plan.
I'm just glad someone posted a Fighter build at least.
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Shoot an arrow with an attached portable hole designed to open up when the arrow strike. Wizard is destroyed as the extra dimensional spaces he has all over him interract badly with the portable hole.
Extra dimensional,things wizards likely have - pocket familiar, bag of holding, bag of useful things, some kind of dimensional component pouch, some kind of dimensional,storage for their spell books.
If the hole doesn't sit well with folks, do the same thing with a bag of holding on the arrow, just rigged to trigger like a net on impact with target.
BOOM!
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Take manyshot. Put bag on one arrow, hole on the other one. Fire at wizard's square (AC 5), rigged to expand on impact. Win.Shoot an arrow with an attached portable hole designed to open up when the arrow strike. Wizard is destroyed as the extra dimensional spaces he has all over him interract badly with the portable hole.
Extra dimensional,things wizards likely have - pocket familiar, bag of holding, bag of useful things, some kind of dimensional component pouch, some kind of dimensional,storage for their spell books.
If the hole doesn't sit well with folks, do the same thing with a bag of holding on the arrow, just rigged to trigger like a net on impact with target.
BOOM!
Rules citation required on how your going to do that.
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Shoot an arrow with an attached portable hole designed to open up when the arrow strike. Wizard is destroyed as the extra dimensional spaces he has all over him interract badly with the portable hole.
Extra dimensional,things wizards likely have - pocket familiar, bag of holding, bag of useful things, some kind of dimensional component pouch, some kind of dimensional,storage for their spell books.
If the hole doesn't sit well with folks, do the same thing with a bag of holding on the arrow, just rigged to trigger like a net on impact with target.
BOOM!
Not to be that guy, but they aren't destroyed. They're sent to the astral plane, which... which will not kill a level 20 wizard. Or really almost anything else worth spending 25k or so on an arrow.
Shoot an arrow with an attached portable hole designed to open up when the arrow strike. Wizard is destroyed as the extra dimensional spaces he has all over him interract badly with the portable hole.
Extra dimensional,things wizards likely have - pocket familiar, bag of holding, bag of useful things, some kind of dimensional component pouch, some kind of dimensional,storage for their spell books.
If the hole doesn't sit well with folks, do the same thing with a bag of holding on the arrow, just rigged to trigger like a net on impact with target.
BOOM!
Because portable holes and bag of holdings have an unlisted engulf capability now? Or are you suggesting homebrewed version of the items?
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Suffocate is a close spell, you start 400 feet away. (200 foot radius for level 20). How are you closing the distance?Slee Papnea
1st round
Quicken Extend Suffocate - DC 30 Fort for 6 rounds
Depends on how the room looks at crunch time. I could always use my swift action at the end of the round, after the time stop.
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At level 20, standing in an arena, with no cover and no buffs, the winner is not determined by caster/non-caster.
It's rocket tag, pure and simple. He who wins initiative, wins.
The first thing people think of is, of course, the diviner. Diviner's are not, however the only ones that can play the initiative game.
A Sohei monk, for example, could win the initiative and kill the Diviner before Time Stop or conjuration ever comes into play. Without buffs the Diviner is just a stationary target is someone else goes first.
The fighter does not play the initiative game, which would lead to a loss under the specified conditions. It has nothing to do with caster/martial. It's a question of speed, nothing else.
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Not to be that guy, but they aren't destroyed. They're sent to the astral plane, which... which will not kill a level 20 wizard. Or really almost anything else worth spending 25k or so on an arrow.Shoot an arrow with an attached portable hole designed to open up when the arrow strike. Wizard is destroyed as the extra dimensional spaces he has all over him interract badly with the portable hole.
Extra dimensional,things wizards likely have - pocket familiar, bag of holding, bag of useful things, some kind of dimensional component pouch, some kind of dimensional,storage for their spell books.
If the hole doesn't sit well with folks, do the same thing with a bag of holding on the arrow, just rigged to trigger like a net on impact with target.
BOOM!
Has this changed from when I played Pathfinder? There used to be destruction, pain and generally a pretty bad time to be had when you mixed dimensional spaces together. It's why rope trick sucks as a hiding technique after a few levels when bags of holding become things parties carry around.
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Because portable holes and bag of holdings have an unlisted engulf capability now? Or are you suggesting homebrewed version of the items?Shoot an arrow with an attached portable hole designed to open up when the arrow strike. Wizard is destroyed as the extra dimensional spaces he has all over him interract badly with the portable hole.
Extra dimensional,things wizards likely have - pocket familiar, bag of holding, bag of useful things, some kind of dimensional component pouch, some kind of dimensional,storage for their spell books.
If the hole doesn't sit well with folks, do the same thing with a bag of holding on the arrow, just rigged to trigger like a net on impact with target.
BOOM!
Custom magic items dude. They're not on the last of banned items. Any fighter type going up against a caster who's had time to prepare prebattle buffs, knows he's going to be fighting in an arena, knows the outlay and knows the enemy isn't a caster.....well if the fighter doesn't take time to come up with some custom stuff to catch me caster off guard, then that's a lost battle.
It always has been and always will be in every one of the silly contrived caster vs martial threads that have popped up
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custom magic items are banned automatically, because they require dm approval and there is no dm.
without a dm, things like ring of continuous true strike become possible.
so, no.
I mean, I think the OP is the dm but he already gave a ruling. Must be in the Paizo prd. Since custom items are specifically not-published I would lean away from that.
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Custom magic items dude. They're not on the last of banned items.
Homebrew isn't on the list of allowed material mate, I'm pretty sure if it was then people would use homebrew to copy the player companion and third-party material they wanted in a second. :P
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Here's a probably not quite optimized fighter for this discussion:
Dwarf
Fighter 20 TN align
str 8/14
dex 24/30
con 20/26
int 10
wis 20/26
cha 10
hp 360
ac 40 T 25 FF 29
bab 20 CMB +30 (+40 with standstill) CMD 49
init +18
fort +27 (29 vs. poison, 31 vs spells and spell likes)
ref +25 (29 vs spells and spell likes)
will +23 (27 vs spells and spell likes)
speed 30'
(+5, ghost touch, Deathless, bashing, Improved energy resistance (all) | +5 phase locking, ghost touch, merciful, called, dueling) light steel shield +43/38/33/28 to hit; 2d6+16 Non-Lethal; x3 crit
Skills: Acrobatics R3 +15/20 jump, Craft (Weaponsmithing) r20 +30, UMD r17 +25.
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Steel Soul, Weapon Focus (light shield), Skill Focus (UMD), weapon spec (light shield), master craftsman, combat reflexes, stand still, greater weapon focus (light shield), iron will, lightning reflexes, Improved initiative, Improved Shield Bash, Craft arms and armor, craft wonderous item, Disruptive, Spellbreaker, Shatterspell, Agile Manuevers, Dodge.
Class Features: Close Control, Bravery, Close Combatant (+5/+7), Menacing Stance (-4/-7), No Escape, Stand Still, Weapon Mastery (Light Shield)
Gear: +5 dex book (used; 68750 gp), +4 con book (used; 55000 gp), +4 Wisdom book (used; 55000 gp), CL 21 wand of dispel magic (47,250 gp), cl 7 wand of dim door (21000), CL 20 wand of silence (4500), CL 5 wand of cure mod (7500 gp), necklace of adaptation (4500 gp), +6 belt of physical perfection (77000 gp), +6 headband of wisdom (18000 gp), celestial shield (6585 gp), celestial armor (11,200 gp), +5 cloak of resist (12,500 gp), +5 ring of prot (50,000 gp), greater ring of inner fortitude (66000 gp), pale green prism Ioun stone (15,000 gp), luck stone (10,000 gp), boots of striding and springing (2750 gp), Dusty rose prism ioun stone (2500 gp), Spring loaded wrist sheath x2, cash to retrain hp to max. (57,800 gp left over)
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Has this changed from when I played Pathfinder? There used to be destruction, pain and generally a pretty bad time to be had when you mixed dimensional spaces together. It's why rope trick sucks as a hiding technique after a few levels when bags of holding become things parties carry around.Not to be that guy, but they aren't destroyed. They're sent to the astral plane, which... which will not kill a level 20 wizard. Or really almost anything else worth spending 25k or so on an arrow.Shoot an arrow with an attached portable hole designed to open up when the arrow strike. Wizard is destroyed as the extra dimensional spaces he has all over him interract badly with the portable hole.
Extra dimensional,things wizards likely have - pocket familiar, bag of holding, bag of useful things, some kind of dimensional component pouch, some kind of dimensional,storage for their spell books.
If the hole doesn't sit well with folks, do the same thing with a bag of holding on the arrow, just rigged to trigger like a net on impact with target.
BOOM!
As far as I can tell an Astral portal is all you've ever gotten out of the combo in Pathfinder (despite what some memes would have people believe), and after a quick jaunt over to d20srd.com it looks like that was the case back in 3.5 as well.
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How does summoning and people without goz masks deal with an eversmoking bottle?
so since people went about this the wrong way, you're flavor of barrier then Detect magic then mage's disjunction the bottle
don't know how it took people this long.
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Not to be that guy, but they aren't destroyed. They're sent to the astral plane, which... which will not kill a level 20 wizard. Or really almost anything else worth spending 25k or so on an arrow.Shoot an arrow with an attached portable hole designed to open up when the arrow strike. Wizard is destroyed as the extra dimensional spaces he has all over him interract badly with the portable hole.
Extra dimensional,things wizards likely have - pocket familiar, bag of holding, bag of useful things, some kind of dimensional component pouch, some kind of dimensional,storage for their spell books.
If the hole doesn't sit well with folks, do the same thing with a bag of holding on the arrow, just rigged to trigger like a net on impact with target.
BOOM!
VICTORY BY RINGOUT!
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here's my entry
he's a fighter
Human fighter 1
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +0
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Defense
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AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 12 (1d10+2)
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +2
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee greatsword +5 (2d6+4/19-20)
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Statistics
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Str 17, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +4; CMD 16
Feats Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (greatsword)
Skills Acrobatics +1 (-3 to jump), Climb +5, Survival +4, Swim +5
Languages Common, Halfling
Other Gear armored coat[APG], greatsword, backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, hemp rope (50 ft.), mess kit[UE], pot, soap, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, 41 gp
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Special Abilities
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Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
round 1: hahahahaha(does he even get this far?)
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here's my entry
he's a fighter
** spoiler omitted **
I Like it. I think i've played this exact character before except swap dex and con
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I Like it. I think i've played this exact character before except swap dex and conhere's my entry
he's a fighter
** spoiler omitted **
he gets the con at 4rth level because at those lower levels you're close to 1 shot regardless of what you do, so you want to not get hit.
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Fair enough I think mine wore scale which was why I reversed them. (or whichever armor is +6 but no dex To sleep deprived to remember)
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Don't post the characters. That just gives other players a chance to design against you. Caster fighter discussions are notorious for casters always having exactly the correct spell ready to go.
If you post your stats publicly, they'll tear it apart.
May I suggest that you hold them. Then when the OP is ready to run said fight, he gives a 24 hour notice for two players to go up against each other. They PM him their designed entries and he makes them both public at the same time for the fight to commence.
Or better still, he just adjudicates actions in his fight thread and enforces what's on the sheet.
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I ran one of these by PbP before, and everyone submitted their characters to the GM, and then he submitted them to the "combat thread". That way nobody could metagame.
I think the OP should put a deadline on things by saying 1st level combatants need to be submitted by ____. The same goes for certain other levels.
I would do levels 1, 7, 13, 20. If he doesn't make things less free-form nothing might ever get done.
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Nice one Wraithstrike.
That would be a fun fight to see. I like them even more secret though. Players can't plan attacks or defences any where near as easily if they don't know what the enemy has up his sleeve.
Either way, these don't prove much. Just fuel for a long burning fire mostly. Hehe.
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Either way, these don't prove much. Just fuel for a long burning fire mostly. Hehe.
I agree. I just want to see it happen though.
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All these builds are so complicated.
My entry:
OoOoO the Lazy, Elf caster (doesn't really matter, Sorcerer, Wizard, Psychic, Witch or Arcanist will do)
Round 1
- Wins initiative.
- casts Quckened Dispel Magic targeting Protection from OoOoO's alignment
- casts Greater Possesion
FIN
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How do you use 'weaponsmithing' to craft your non-weapon wondrous items? Also, you don't get half-price for crafting your own tomes/manuals of stat boosting. The craft cost is almost the same as the purchase cost because of the 25k material component.
Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.
Emphasis mine.
Also, you don't get half-price for crafting your own tomes/manuals of stat boosting. The craft cost is almost the same as the purchase cost because of the 25k material component.
I just assumed since I wasn't actually casting the spell, I wouldn't have to pay the component cost. I would have to reconfigure his gear (which I'm not going to do, cause that would be time I don't really want to spend)
Can your fighter see invisible?
Sure, cause I still have plenty of money to buy a wand. This was a character that I built in like 45 minutes, and most of that was picking gear.
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1 hour/level buffs are allowed, as are spells like contingency. What would the sohei monk do to kill the wizard that couldn't be countered?
That's what I was about to say.
Assuming contingency is allowed, the martial doesn't just need to win initiative, he needs to win initiative and deal with the contingency and kill the wizard in one round.
But as it's very likely to be a contingency of "when I'm attacked" and "cast emergency force sphere" which will then give the wizard rounds to buff or otherwise act...this probably doesn't work well for the martial character.