Original / Hardcover differences?


Curse of the Crimson Throne


So I was just wondering, having only just now found out they made a hard cover version of this AP, what exactly are the differences between the two, aside from obviously updating everything to Pathfinder rules.


There's a lot of added content, including a completely new stronghold to invade and Scarwall.

And art! So much new artwork!


I haven't seen the new CotCT hardback but am currently GMing a group through the anniversary edition Rise of the Runelords.

The adventure path volumes are 100 pages each, while the hardback is 430. What's missing is the non-adventure stuff from the soft covers (the short stories, the articles about a deity or town, that sort of stuff). What's different is the adventure has been converted to Pathfinder, fleshed out in places, a few new encounters and locations added, and generally tidied up a bit where there were problems. That's what they did for RotRL's, I expect Crimson Throne is similar.


RotR AE had a new Player's Guide as well. Is there a new one for Crimson Throne as well, or does the original one still work?


The traits are updated in the actual hardcover and they made a blog post to act as an updated player's guide of sorts.

It's a really top notch blog post, one of James Jacobs unsung talents is producing the best player's guides. :-)


captain yesterday wrote:

The traits are updated in the actual hardcover and they made a blog post to act as an updated player's guide of sorts.

It's a really top notch blog post, one of James Jacobs unsung talents is producing the best player's guides. :-)

Can I get a link please?


This is the best i can do right now, hope it helps.


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On the topic of Original vs Anniversary Edition changes... I am finding it mostly a positive, though some of the additions/changes I don't personally agree with even though I understand the reasoning.

SPOILER: The Gray Maidens:

Ileosa is an immensely powerful bard, with access to the highest level spells and the spirit of Kazavon (the former herald of Zon Kuthon). In the original Adventure Path, it was strongly implied that the conditioning of the Gray Maidens was her handiwork, and given the combination of powerful magic (she has geas/quest and a GM could easily have swapped in modify memory and dominate person) and whispers from Kazavon, it was very believable.

The Anniversary Edition puts the credit out of the hands of the Queen, and into the hands of a 9th level wizard, who comes equipped with Acadamae training and a mixture of (generally less powerful) spells.

On one hand, Ileosa does need notable minions to help her achieve her goals. On the other hand, I preferred the Gray Maidens to be her own handiwork, rather than something she had someone create for her.
I can't help feeling like the existence of Vivana in particular lessens Ileosa as a villain =/

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captain yesterday wrote:

There's a lot of added content, including a completely new stronghold to invade and Scarwall.

And art! So much new artwork!

Was Loari Vaus supposed to be as unattractive as her new art makes her look?


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Lord Fyre wrote:
Was Loari Vaus supposed to be as unattractive as her new art makes her look?

Well, to be fair, her Charisma score is only 8.

But seriously though, anything is better than her original piece of art.

Traumatic flashbacks to pointy chainmail jumpsuit

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Malefactor wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Was Loari Vaus supposed to be as unattractive as her new art makes her look?

Well, to be fair, her Charisma score is only 8.

But seriously though, anything is better than her original piece of art.

I don't agree anything is better.

Yes, that illustration doesn't fit with the rest of the AP's art style.


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Lord Fyre wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:

There's a lot of added content, including a completely new stronghold to invade and Scarwall.

And art! So much new artwork!

Was Loari Vaus supposed to be as unattractive as her new art makes her look?

I prefer her art from Champions of Corruption, personally.

The new art in the Hardcover has a couple of things that didn't sit well with me, personally. Notably that the artist favors a very chunky style that doesn't gel with elven physique, and her armor style makes her legs look much shorter than they actually are.

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Speaking of character art, I'm not 100% thrilled at the change to Ileosa's art. The new art makes the character more obviously evil, something a villain like her should NOT be.

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Also, with the rebuild of Shadow Count Sial and Asyra as a Summoner & Eidolon, will the Kyton Sub-type appear in a more accessible source?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Lord Fyre wrote:
Also, with the rebuild of Shadow Count Sial and Asyra as a Summoner & Eidolon, will the Kyton Sub-type appear in a more accessible source?

There are no plans to do so at this time.

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James Jacobs wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Also, with the rebuild of Shadow Count Sial and Asyra as a Summoner & Eidolon, will the Kyton Sub-type appear in a more accessible source?
There are no plans to do so at this time.

:(


On the topic of Sial & Asyra: is there a reason for nerfing them so heavily?
Because Sial was changed from a full caster + strong minion to a weaker caster, while asyra became a class feature. I feel like he got a lot weaker.


Gidonamor wrote:

On the topic of Sial & Asyra: is there a reason for nerfing them so heavily?

Because Sial was changed from a full caster + strong minion to a weaker caster, while asyra became a class feature. I feel like he got a lot weaker.

Agreed; having run both, Sial is a non-factor as a summoner. I'd switch him back to his mystic theurge self.


NobodysHome wrote:
Gidonamor wrote:

On the topic of Sial & Asyra: is there a reason for nerfing them so heavily?

Because Sial was changed from a full caster + strong minion to a weaker caster, while asyra became a class feature. I feel like he got a lot weaker.

Agreed; having run both, Sial is a non-factor as a summoner. I'd switch him back to his mystic theurge self.

Okay, great. I was thinking about that, too, but was worried that he got nerfed because he was too strong originally. Thanks.

Which arcane class would you use for mystic theurge? I think originally he was nearly full cleric, with a few levels in some un-converted prestige class.


Gidonamor wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Gidonamor wrote:

On the topic of Sial & Asyra: is there a reason for nerfing them so heavily?

Because Sial was changed from a full caster + strong minion to a weaker caster, while asyra became a class feature. I feel like he got a lot weaker.

Agreed; having run both, Sial is a non-factor as a summoner. I'd switch him back to his mystic theurge self.

Okay, great. I was thinking about that, too, but was worried that he got nerfed because he was too strong originally. Thanks.

Which arcane class would you use for mystic theurge? I think originally he was nearly full cleric, with a few levels in some un-converted prestige class.

Oh, geez. I used the 3.5 --> Pathfinder conversions I found in one of the threads here. Not entirely helpful, I know, but it was 7 years ago, so memory's not great.

But yeah, I'd go full cleric with enough of a dip into conjurer to get him to mystic theurge. He still isn't great, but having Asyra as a full kyton does wonders for her effectiveness, and she's the more fun NPC to play, anyway.

In both my games, he ended up being the "Grumpy old man, butt of all the jokes" guy.

But at least in the first game he felt at least somewhat useful.

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