Hi all,
Quick question re: dominate person. It's a pretty straightforward spell as far as it goes if the commands given are simple or there's no shared language, but there's lots of room for more interesting/creepy/fascinating scenarios if a language is shared. Particularly if you've got a creature like an aboleth, which is likely to play the long game, and might give a command like, "Indicate to no one that you hear me. Otherwise act normally."
My question is: in such a case, assuming the dominator wants to retain control over the dominated, can they recast the spell before its duration is up after giving the command "Give up your saving throw?" (Probably better phrased in game as, "Submit to me," or something like that.)
Of course there should still be ways for the dominated person to try to get out of it--the usual rules about being told to take actions that are suicidal/against your nature, etc., apply.* But does that seem like a viable command?
*Aaaaaand I just realized that the PC I might do this to is CN and VERY anti-authoritarian, so the very command, "Submit to me" might actually give her that +2 saving throw...crud. ;)
The tricky thing about "act normally" is that it might not be possible. The wording implies that the subject obeys orders, and only orders (and biologically necessary tasks).
Even if it did act normally, the DC to determine its acting odd is still low, and so they're easy to uncover.
If your goal is a single task performed at just the right time, may I suggest Triggered Suggestion?
Hmmmmm I suppose there is something to that argument. Although what an "order" constitutes is pretty broad--wouldn't "say nothing about this" be an order? And if so, wouldn't the character be free to continue doing other things once it has "completed" that? (But then, I suppose one could interpret it to mean that the subject can do nothing BUT "say nothing about this..." Hm.)
Triggered suggestion looks great, but this actually is specifically an aboleth, and sadly they don't have that available without class levels. ;)
Curious to hear other people's takes on this or new thoughts too--I'm weighing whether to do it at all or not with the player (who already failed their will save) and I don't want to derail the whole plot of the AP we're running with a domination subplot. That's honestly the main reason I'm hoping to keep it subtle--so that I can "trigger" the sub-plot at a more appropriate time.
Triggered suggestion looks great, but this actually is specifically an aboleth, and sadly they don't have that available without class levels. ;)
One of these is a level 9 spell-like ability, the other would be level 4. I do not think your players would object to a light amount of homebrew, especially when it means one of their characters goes from "sorry, you failed your save, now you don't get to do anything for the rest of the session" to "you failed the save, you get to continue your playing but have to kill everybody you see if you hear the word kerfuffle in casual conversation".
I'd say you can't. It's not the fact that you can ask the dominated creature to submit to you, it's just that creatures actively resist the control.
Trying to recast dominate person again (even if the target is unaware or already under control) would still count as something that creature would never allow by default. Giving up free will is something against anyone's nature per-se.
Unless the dominated person has spellcraft he doesn't really know what is being cast on him. "Don't resist this buff I'm about to cast on you." Oops.
"Act normally" could have two outcomes. One, it means to do whatever they want. They simply inform their friends they're being controlled. Two, it means to act as if nothing is out of the ordinary. That's fine, but after a minute or so of talking with them, somebody will notice that their responses are wooden and they are unable to respond properly to anything unusual. DC 15 Sense Motive ahoy. No matter what your command is, you can't get rid of that weakness. The best you can do is avoid people interacting long enough to make it.
Thanks for all the input. Having talked with the player, we're running with the (somewhat generous) interpretation of letting them follow the command "Tell no one about this" while otherwise having free will. The player likes the idea of having this secret, so I don't think it will be too disruptive. A new save when the spell gets refreshed is definite (if not before, depending on what happens).
Ultimately, of course, it means a lot of Sense Motive checks in the party's future...but I think that can be fun! ;)
Unless the dominated person has spellcraft he doesn't really know what is being cast on him. "Don't resist this buff I'm about to cast on you." Oops.
It's not a question about telling the target the spell is a "buff", it's the real effect what matters.
Per RAW:
Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result.
You can willingly drop a saving throw? Yes
A creature "actively resisting domination" may willingly accept a dominate person spell result? I'd highly doubt that.
For The specific case of asking a creature to drop natural defenses (both saving throws and spell resistance), I'd say the target is totally eligible to a bluff (with a +5 "creature wants to believe" bonus) vs a sense motive roll, even while dominated. And in fact, even if you end up making the target drop her save throw that way, I'd count that as "...subject forced to take actions against its nature..." once the real effect kicks in. That would immediately grant the creature yet another ST, but this time with a +2.