Mooncursed Barbarian Archetype + Armor?


Rules Questions


The Mooncursed Barbarian archetype replaces Rage with "Shifting Rage", which replaces the normal effects of Rage with an effect based on the Beast Shape spell. Beast Shape is a transmutation (polymorph) spell.

Under the rules for polymorph spells, there are a few important lines such as: "...all your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function)."

So, in my mind, this means that you would not gain any armor bonus from your armor while using Shifting Rage, since it emulates a polymorph effect and has no text to circumvent the polymorph line about armor ceasing to function.

There is some argument that at level 5, when the Mooncursed gets "Hybrid Rage", that would allow them to keep their armor. But the only exceptions listed there are that you keep your forelimbs and legs (and therefore the ability to manipulate items like weapons and spell components and provide somatic components, as well as the ability to walk as normal) and can talk (assumedly both to communicate and provide verbal spell components). No mention of still getting armor.

So, am I correct that you do not continue to benefit from armor (magical or otherwise), including losing the normal armor bonus to AC?


Your gear only melds into your body if you change into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type. It's not clear to me whether your type changes when you take hybrid form, as you are no longer just emulating beast shape N.

EDIT: Wow, that was poorly phrased. Of course your actual type never changes. Make that "whether your hybrid form qualifies."


Shifting Rage states that you choose a certain animal, and that is the animal you change into every time you use Shifting Rage. So it is definitely an animal.

For Hybrid Rage, which only alters Shifting Rage, it sates "...a mooncursed can choose to assume a hybrid of her base type and alternate form instead of her usual alternate form during her shifting rage. If she does, the animal's forelimbs..."; emphasis mine.

This leads me to believe that this is still Shifting Rage, and all of it's effects are still the same (based off of Beast Shape, transmutation (polymorph), loss of armor) EXCEPT for whatever Hybrid Rage specifically changes, which is only access to ones original limbs and ability to speak.


The problem is with Paizo's love of jumbling the wording to be inconsistent. They easily might consider the hybrid for a humanoid or monstrous humanoid, but they just as easily might not.
Either way, though, Bracers of Armor should still work since you have the appropriate limbs for the magic item slot in hybrid form, so that's one solution.


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Given that the hybrid forms of the lycanthrope creatures in the bestiary still keep their armor, I feel the intent is for you to keep your armor. RAW though, I don't think you do.


I think my quote above makes it clear that the hybrid form is still an animal. And yes, Bracers of Armor are an option, if you want to pay for them instead of regular armor.

I get that it makes sense for the hybrid form to be more like a normal were-creature, since that is the whole flavor of the archetype, but it's not how the archetype is written.

Agreed that it could very easily have been intended to allow armor; that the creators overlooked the whole "polymorph effects turn off armor" thing, and so forgot to include an exception in the hybrid form. But they remembered it well enough to add a feature 4 levels later that at least let you walk, talk, and manipulate items like normal.


To be clear, I feel the intent is for you to be able to use armor in hybrid form only, since that's how it works for the other were-creatures.


Ok, the fact that actual lycanthropes explicitly don't meld gear in hybrid form makes me think that

(1) RAW the Mooncursed hybrid does meld;

(2) RAI it shouldn't;

(3) A reasonable GM (outside PFS) should houserule that it doesn't.


I think anything that takes away armor needs to give either a replacement (such as Monks bonus to AC) or a REALLY good benefit for going armorless.

Mooncursed tries to make it up by giving you the NA bonus from the spell, but this is partially taken away with the Dex penalty and AC size penalty.

So, I agree that armor should still work; true, you'd end up with more AC than a core Barbarian, but I think that is intended to be one of the benefits of the archetype.

But, RAW, it doesn't as far as I can tell, and everyone seems to agree so far.

RAI is iffy, but also irrelevant.


RAI isn't ENTIRELY irrelevant in a home game. Talking with your GM is always a good idea. Just like my previous comment said, though, RAI isn't totally clear here.

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