what can we make of it?
In case you were wondering. Haunted Heroes Handbook contains a set of feats which in addition to some other small perks let you reduce the penalties for TWF by 2 (minimum .1). It will cost you 2 feats: Possessed Hand and Hand's Autonomy which have no additional pre-requisites.
Some ideas:
Double Katana Samurai (You get quick Draw as a class feature so this works nicely).
Double Dwarven Waraxes --> add Lead Blades and Enlarge Person for flavor.
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Wait, what? What what? They made feats that reduce TWF penalties? What is the catch? Are we spending attacks or something? Is it not applicable to light weapons? Is this deity specific?
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Wait, what? What what? They made feats that reduce TWF penalties? What is the catch? Are we spending attacks or something? Is it not applicable to light weapons? Is this deity specific?
It is none of those things. ^_^
The only real cost for these feats (which also give you a +1 insight bonus to attack and damage with one hand's weapon, among various other benefits) is a -2 on concentration checks.
(Actually, it won't reduce the penalty past -1, if that troubles you. So it gets maximum benefit with one-handed weapons. Still pretty nice, though.)
So we get another two feats tossed on top of the mountain you already need to be good at TWF? And not only that, but it's weirdly-ghostly flavored/related as well?
Yeah, I think I'll pass.
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Possessed Hand: Somebody has been watching to much Vampire Hunter D
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The lead-in feat is pretty good- you get +1 attack and damage with one of your hands (excluding with two-handed weapons), at the cost of -2 on concentration checks.
Minor perks for taking both:
+1 to Sleight of Hand and Disable Device
1/day swift action retrieval on an object 5 lbs. or less.
Wake yourself up from magical sleep.
Use potions on yourself while unconscious/paralyzed/stunned/asleep, or even wands (with -4 UMD). You can also make an attack as a full-round action.
The feats are pretty nice. But the big crunch benefit is the reduction to TWF penalties. If you are using the normal one handed and light weapon it's only reduced to -1 however so naturally any power gamer worth his salt should try and find a way to get more bang for his buck and tada swing those war axes. The other option where this would work is if you combine rapid shot and TWF on a throwing build.
The big downside of this combo is that this costs you 2 feats. Thus for any martial that doesn't get a substantial amount of Bonus feats (like Fighter or Ranger) it's prolly not gonna be better than Double Slice into Two Weapon rend.
The nice thing is that there are no other pre requsities so a human fighter can get TWF, Possessed Hand and Autonomous Hand at level 1 if he likes.
What I'm trying to figure out currently, is this only cool or is it actually any good. My first calculations for the samurai with 2 Katana's showed that it's not much better than just using two Wakizashi.
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Its not much of a feat tax considering everything else that the feats let you do, effectively a free enhancement bonus for one of your weapons, limited actions while impaired, and if you invest one more you can even get your hands on a familiar to go scouting. Or non-combat dark vision. Or extra class skills.
Its a really good featline.
Anyway, the big advantage of the one feat is the ability to use two One Handed weapons together without taking absurd penalties. Shortswords become Longswords, Kukri become Scimitars, and etc. Average damage increase by 1 per swing per weapon.
The real advantage comes from having free proficiency in one of three specific weapons either from class choice, worship of specific gods, or race. The Bastard Sword is two steps up from a Shortsword, the Katana is two steps up from a kukri, and the Estoc is two steps up from a kukri and has the advantage of being finessable.
Katana proficiency is the easiest to come by thanks to Ninja and Samurai.
As always, two weapon fighting is best when accompanied with flat damage, free feats, and high BAB. Fighter, Monk, Ranger, Cavalier, Samurai, Slayer, and Warpriest are your best bets.
What I'm trying to figure out currently, is this only cool or is it actually any good. My first calculations for the samurai with 2 Katana's showed that it's not much better than just using two Wakizashi.
A one step increase in weapon die is never very good, you have to do multiple stacking for it to matter very much. Two feats is pretty expensive to raise the damage die on your off hand attacks. If you want the rest of the benefits or the flavor it makes plenty of sense.
I wonder how much of an impact that +1 would benefit twf with the "normal" twf weapons. I guess it's also preference. The more optimal weapon choices leave you with a choice of +2 damage on average via damage dice and a +1 to hit with smaller weapons, which conventional DPR wisdom says is about even.
Regardless, it's good for twf (If you can fit the feats) actually pretty awesome flavor wise. "How do I swing these Bastard Swords so well? I dunno. I control the right hand, and my left just kinda, ya know, goes nuts."
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The lead-in feat is pretty good- you get +1 attack and damage with one of your hands (excluding with two-handed weapons), at the cost of -2 on concentration checks.
I am very tempted to take this on my bladebound kensai.
With just a minor change in attire, he could do a full-on Vampire Hunter D impersonation. Just need to use Alter Self to fake being Dhampire.
I really like Possessed Hand and I'm going to grab it ASAP, however I have the feeling it's gonna be nerfed.
As of now, it completely overshadows Weapon Focus, with none of its limitations.
I'm afraid the lead design team will not like this implication.
It's also pretty much optimal for any 2wf build out there, making it a strong choice that will soon become popular, attracting further attention in PFS, because its fluff is so specific.
"Why does every adventurer now have a possessed hand? This is bad for the lore! Ugh! Nerf Bat, come at me!"
Agreed, I'm not seeing this one lasting that long. At the very least I'm gonna grab it for my ancestor oracle since it's thematic as f%#~ for her. Enjoy it while it lasts PFS folks!
Yeah it's prolly not gonna make it into PFS as Possessed Hand is pretty bonkers for monks, swashbucklers, brawlers and Magi simply for the +1 to hit and damage on all attacks without any prerequisites.
In order to make Autonomous Hand really good, you have to find weapons which will buy you more than a simple +1 damage. Most of those weapons are exotic however. But particularly the D10 one handed weapons really make big jumps in damage output with size increases so if you are enlarged and have lead blades up you can swing 2 4d8 Dwarven waraxes.
Another thing to consider is that fighters, who would normally specialize in 2 light weapons due to all the weapon specific bonuses, can move from 2 light weapons to 2 two handed weapons which ends up really boosting their damage.
I would actually fight with 2 Falcatas
Nah, it'll be fine.
- It's in a Player's Companion, which almost never get touched directly.
- It's offbeat enough to not get moved into a hardcover. We already had Horror Adventures.
- It's not overwhelmingly better than Weapon Focus. For one weapon, using WF plus greatsword is more damage and the same attack. For two weapons, it's only boosting the attack of one while WF boosts both. One attack is generally worth two damage, so WF is about the same (since its same weapon restriction costs you a point of damage). If you have to use the same weapon anyway, WF is better. No pre-reqs loosely balances with the drawback. You also have to take it with a regular feat.
- It does have good follow-on feats, but WF opens up a ton of combat feats.
- The extra perks are a flat advantage over WF.
- It's strictly better for sword-and-board, but WF is bad for them anyway.
It's way more interesting and flexible than WF, but not really much more powerful.
PFS nerf/ban? Could be, since that bypasses the first two points.
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Possessed Hand: Somebody has been watching to much Vampire Hunter D
Well, the Paizo staff do seem to be pretty good friends with the guys doing that Message to Mars thing, so it makes sense.
Hmm, Possessed Hand's bonus is typed (insight), so it doesn't stack with everything. An incomplete list of other options providing insight bonus to AB is:
Feat: Measure Foe (needs Street Smarts & BAB 1)
Class feature: Quarry (Ranger 11)
Bloodline power: Touch of Destiny (Destined 1)
Domain power: Inspiring Command (Nobility, subdomain Leadership 1)
School power: Diviner's Fortune (Divination 1)
Spell: True Strike
Still, insight bonus to damage seems to be rare or nonexisting.
Comparing with a baseline of Weapon Focus & Greater Weapon Focus (+2 AB, slightly situational), the little feat chain Possessed Hand & Hand's Autonomy is usually superior (+3 AB, +1 damage, a lot of minor bonuses, slightly situational also).
Well... It requires 2 feats in addition to the mountain of feats necessary for TWF. All for the "amazing" benefit of slightly increased base damage die.
Yeah... I'm not impressed.
Well... It requires 2 feats in addition to the mountain of feats necessary for TWF. All for the "amazing" benefit of slightly increased base damage die.
Yeah... I'm not impressed.
The feat chain's real area to shine is not TWF, it is with builds that use a single one-handed weapon for all attacks.
Possessed Hand does not replace Weapon Focus. Possessed Hand stacks with Weapon Focus.
Fortunately, it comes with a trait's worth of concentration check penalty so that it isn't simply an automatic choice for every Magus. Makes it stronger for non-casters.
Possessed Hand does not replace Weapon Focus. Possessed Hand stacks with Weapon Focus.
Zis...
Agreed, I'm not seeing this one lasting that long. At the very least I'm gonna grab it for my ancestor oracle since it's thematic as f+%% for her. Enjoy it while it lasts PFS folks!
I could make a Faq thread for it '3'
like that one thread for the scimitar dex to damage thingy after that rapier faq happened.
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Shucks.
I guess I should review the new rule. What is and where can I find the Campaign Clarificatoins Document?
The revised text for PFS games can be found here, in the Varisia: Birthplace of Legends section. ^_^
Fortunately, it comes with a trait's worth of concentration check penalty so that it isn't simply an automatic choice for every Magus. Makes it stronger for non-casters.
Not a good choice for Magus at low level, but by the time Greater Spell Combat kicks in most 1st - 2nd level spells are auto success to cast defensively. Add in Gloves of Elvenkind and the Magus can auto succeed on all spells he is capable of casting, even with a possessed hand.
So, does Hand's Autonomy penalty reduction with Two-Weapon Fighting also apply to Two-Weapon Fighting chains (i.e., Improved and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting)?
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Hand's Autonomy reduces the penalties for two-weapon fighting (the combat mode, not the feat). The various two-weapon fighting feats also reduce the penalties for two-weapon fighting (the combat mode). These reductions stack. The statement that the benefits "stack with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat" is technically redundant, as there's no mechanism by which they wouldn't stack by default. These aren't bonuses, just reductions of penalties.
The most fun I've had with this is to take 2 levels of Titan Mauler Barbarian to get Two Handed Weapons to be treated as One Handed weapons.
If you are a Human Barbarian (and why wouldn't you be human?) you can get both possessed hand feats and two weapon fighting going at level 3. At this point, you are duel wielding greatswords at -3/-4
If you start with 16 strength and are raging, at level 3 you are looking at +5/+4 to hit with the two greatswords. Plus another +1 with the right rage power (Reckless Abandon), so +6/+5. Flank with an ally and you've got yourself +8/+7.
WITH TWO GREATSWORDS
Its stupid and wonderful.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Hand's Autonomy reduces the penalties for two-weapon fighting (the combat mode, not the feat). The various two-weapon fighting feats also reduce the penalties for two-weapon fighting (the combat mode). These reductions stack. The statement that the benefits "stack with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat" is technically redundant, as there's no mechanism by which they wouldn't stack by default. These aren't bonuses, just reductions of penalties.
Awesome! Thanks!
The most fun I've had with this is to take 2 levels of Titan Mauler Barbarian to get Two Handed Weapons to be treated as One Handed weapons.
If you are a Human Barbarian (and why wouldn't you be human?) you can get both possessed hand feats and two weapon fighting going at level 3. At this point, you are duel wielding greatswords at -3/-4
If you start with 16 strength and are raging, at level 3 you are looking at +5/+4 to hit with the two greatswords. Plus another +1 with the right rage power (Reckless Abandon), so +6/+5. Flank with an ally and you've got yourself +8/+7.
WITH TWO GREATSWORDS
Its stupid and wonderful.
You forgot the -2 penalty from Jotungrip.