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I think the item nerf isn't as big as what it implies here. Now my characters lose one or two points of AC and need a new way around crits, big whoop. The trait+Item combo complaint is silly, because defender of the society is a trait that explicity gives a +1 to AC. It doesn't get called cheesy or a cheap exploit, because +1 AC will not save you often. The crit negation can arise from armor properties, which work more often in a day, even if you cannot decide when they work. The actual mechanical change is annoying, but not crippling
But more importantly, people liked the jingasa. It wasn't a staple item or a necessity for anyone, like the mithral BP or Cloak of Resistance, but it was fun to figure out a flavorful reason your non-tian characters had it, and it was good enough to justify buying it perhaps with a quick line about why if asked about it. It was a popular that a lot of people liked, and was only in need of a minor tweak. It was then turned into a nearly useless item that makes little sense for many characters. This isn't fun, nor is trying to patch up the hole in defenses. Its doable, and in this case its kind of easy, but I do not enjoy it as it bothers me to use cookie cutter builds/items.
Also, to the "Ignore/Houserule Patch it" crowd, that isn't an option for more than just PFS. In some circles, GMs don't allow it. Many GMs in the past have disallowed item crafting fearing exploitation, and many use the PRD/SRD because they haven't saved enough to buy all the PDF/books they want to use. Its not an option for everyone.
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A lot of people are understandably upset when the rug gets pulled out from under their characters, even if only in small ways—we have seen much worse in the past—and hyperbole is just a fact of the Internet. Most, if not all of the items in this errata could have used a price increase or an added qualifier (such as to prevent people from using a new Quick Runner's Shirt each combat). But most of these changes went way too far in the other direction, relegating the items to the scrap heap along with, frankly, a huge share of other options.
Also, I DO play to win - but the kind of mentality that I railed against, and that people subsequently implied was about "playing to win," ISN'T one that "wins." In addition to destroying the game, it doesn't even achieve its own goal of "making the most powerful character" since everything has a price, and there's no way to be "optimized" for a game where anything's possible. It definitely seems to me that the characters made by those of us who don't believe the tenets of this new "Church of Gaming" (founded circa 2007, then rose to the fore circa 2012) wind up making much more functional characters than those who do - it does a lot to make one conclude that this "Church's" whole way of thinking about the game, for all its seemingly persuasive on-paper arguments, is fundamentally wrong.
Confusing theoretical and practical optimization again/still. And I don't think I'll ever understand why the phenomenon of people asking for and receiving advice on character mechanics drives you so apoplectic. Cultists with a meme opinion...
Shrivel the game down until there are only a few possibilities to worry about? Then it might be doable
The game does filter down to a relatively small number of possibilities to worry about: Such quantities as Attack Bonus, AC, Fort/Ref/Will, and so on. That is the entire point of making and playing with RPG rules set - otherwise you can save a lot of money by just playing freeform.
but in addition to most of us NOT wanting to play such an impoverished game, consider how the endless cycles of attempting to "balance" World of Warcraft never made anybody truly satisfied, just made everything worse the more things were messed with, and the forums rang night and day with the screams of bean-counters shoving their 5th-grade pre-algebra into each others' faces and all insisting how they alone had "objective proof" that everyone who disagreed with them about who was too weak/too strong that month was WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!
World of Warcraft can't reach a balanced state for a few reasons not applicable here: One, they press the 'reset button' every couple of years with a new expansion, which makes far more sweeping changes than, say, Pathfinder hardcover releases. Two, they insisted until very recently that they would not have a hard separation between PvP and PvE mechanics, and as WoW is primarily a PvE game, it was balanced around endgame raiding. Three, Ghostcrawler was a hack and his replacement is apparently worse. I'm surprised not to see a reference to D&D 4e in here as well. I'm not surprised to see you repeat the same old implication that because the game's internal math is simple, it must therefore be meaningless.
That game was fun, once - but then came...The Bag of Hammers Clan (and that unforgivable insult of an NPC whose name I shall not repeat - you made such a beautiful world, Blizzard, why did you have to s**% on your own art until you chased off your own core clientele???).
I'll agree with you there. Though I wasn't that big a fan of the Warcraft setting to begin with, when I heard players were chasing Garrosh through time I knew the setting was irredeemably lost.
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Confusing theoretical and practical optimization again/still. And I don't think I'll ever understand why the phenomenon of people asking for and receiving advice on character mechanics drives you so apoplectic. Cultists with a meme opinion...
What I'm bothered by is the ascent (which I was there to observe all of) of a narrow, ordered way of thinking and speaking that doesn't play well with anyone who doesn't speak and think their way, and winds up marginalizing the rest of us wherever it takes firm root because it demands understanding without extending any. It's interesting (maybe even some kind of hopeful sign) that you agree with me about World of Warcraft, since that's where I first observed it taking shape, and saw it (as well as other issues that aren't necessarily cut from the same cloth) gradually ruin what had been a fun game environment.
The game does filter down to a relatively small number of possibilities to worry about: Such quantities as Attack Bonus, AC, Fort/Ref/Will, and so on.
You're getting it backwards: Character stats are just character stats, but the challenges you might face are literally limitless.
That is the entire point of making and playing with RPG rules set - otherwise you can save a lot of money by just playing freeform.
No, the point of an RPG rules set is to provide a sort of "UI" between the Land of the Living and a fantasy realm. If you're just going to shrivel it down to a math problem, you could go out and EARN money by counting cards in a casino. Yes, it doesn't entirely make sense; Why do we pick our hobbies? Why do any of us do just what we do? Trying to mathematically optimize one's life will not, in fact, get you the best result.
I'm not surprised to see you repeat the same old implication that because the game's internal math is simple, it must therefore be meaningless.
Math is a lot like money, actually; its very insubstantiality is precisely what makes it useful. It's a means to an end, not an end unto itself - and bad things happen when it's made into an end.
I'm surprised not to see a reference to D&D 4e in here as well.
And you're dredging up old interactions for the sake of superfluous disdainful remarks because...why? I know my problems, but what on Earth is yours?
I'll agree with you there. Though I wasn't that big a fan of the Warcraft setting to begin with, when I heard players were chasing Garrosh through time I knew the setting was irredeemably lost.
I wouldn't say I was "a big fan of the Warcraft setting to begin with" either (the whole "magic is an evil drug yadayada," to name only one prominent thing to dislike) - and yes, while I stopped keeping track before whatever you're talking about and could name occurrences in the game's/setting's history from before then that I'd consider much more damning signs, I can certainly imagine the sound of Garrosh (a name whose significance I can barely even place anymore) activating his Boots of Time Travel as being oddly reminiscent of a waterski scraping the back of a shark.
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Can you imagine how much complaining would happen if they took away Fates favouted? One player said every character just lost 2 ac from this item. Imagine how many half orcs would cease to exist because that trait was taken away.
Maybe you're right though. Maybe the answer is to just drop Fates favoured. Would change so much
I bet the complaint sea would be huge on that aswell, but its a nerf that would make more sense. Instead of nerfing X items you could just remove what makes them "too good" in the first place.
And its not like +1 to all saves is bad, its just that +2 to all saves is a little too good for a 1st level character at the cost of... nearly nothing.
It would make Divine martials pissy due to the hit to their Divine favor, and thats already pretty good for a 1st level spell.
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That being said, the purpose of this thread was not to complain. It was to look for other options now that it is gone.Craft your own item with a Luck bonus.
DISCLAIMER: This thread is currently in the Advice forum, not a PFS-specific forum
And that is all well and nice except for games that do not allow custom item creation. That is an alternate rule and isn't allowed at all tables (or even most tables from my experience). I'm not just talking about PFS here, although that does represent a large player base. This might be hard to believe but there are a LOT of tables that follow the latest errata and do not use alternate rules.
That isn't really the point here, though. To me it sounds like Paizo is making a change that represents the thought that a Luck bonus to AC in general is worth more than just 2,500gp. The statement was made that it is too easy to get a bunch of cheap AC items and that it was throwing off the balance of the game. If that is true then that is an issue that runs to the core of the system. Also, if that is true then it is a problem that can be resolved by adjusting the pricing of a luck bonus to AC.
Removing the only item (that is available to everyone, not just casters) that provides a luck bonus to AC is not the way to resolve the stated issue. Changing the price is.
I am completely with the crowd who believes the real underlying problem is Fate's Favored. In fact, I would bet that a truthful answer from any Paizo Dev would be that they do NOT think that a +1 luck bonus to AC isn't worth 2,500. Mostly, I don't think they would want to say that as it would be akin to stating that it is a flaw that is at the core of the system and I don't think any of them believe that.
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@Jamie Charlan
All that Lucy_Valentine said
+
According to the table, you would actually halve your sum of 720 gp, since you don't add a duration multiplier if the item isn't continuous.
*****
@Lucy_Valentine
Just a pet peeve of mine, but you shouldn't compare it to Bracers of Archery. A +1 competence bonus to hit has a price of 2000 gp.
The Bracers of Archery (lesser) has that price because they grant weapon proficiency, which is priced at 5000 gp.
(slotless items has a 2x multiplier)
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Just to note: Bracers of Falcon's Aim *are* now erroneously priced.
A 1st level spell of 1min/lv at CL1 in a continuous-operation enchantment is worth 4000gp.By becoming a 1/day for 1 minute charge item on-command, the new cost should now be (1*1*1800*2)/5 Giving us 720gp for 1/day.
Gonna need errata for the errata!
Either you are trying to be funny or you don't know the item creation rules.
None of your prices are correct because to even get to the chart you have to have concluded to similar item or effects exist.
Similar items include Eyes of the Eagle, Pale Green cracked ioun stone of a tracks, gloves of delinquent(gives +1 acid ability is a lot like +1 keen).
One minor quibble...there's no spell or feat that adds a +1 Critical multiplier to ANYTHING until you get to the Fighter capstone.
Unless you include an Exotic Weapon Proficency, of course (longsword/battle-axe to Falcata)
==Aelryinth
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To the question of new ways to get that luck bonus back...
The best I see is the Amulet of the Blooded (Destined), 10k gp. "+2 luck bonus on all saving throws and to AC during surprise rounds or any time he is otherwise unaware of an attack." And 1/d reroll an attack, crit confirm, or spell resistance. Parsing is debatable "+2 luck bonus on (all saving throws) and (AC during ...)" or "+2 luck bonus on (all saving throws and AC) during ..." but sneak attacks are often when you are unaware, and surprise rounds are sometimes.
Gunfighter's poncho was mentioned above, but it only on touch attacks.
Amulet of Bullet protection gives luck bonus... but only against guns.
Gunman's duster gives 4AC (regular) and another 2(luck) vs guns, and an extra grit, for far too much money.
Cassock of the Black Monk, 34k gp, gives +4 Luck to touch and some bonuses to Oracles... but just touch.
Regarding Crit negation:
Infernal Cord (and greater) will give you fast healing when someone crits you... ok it's a start.
Blouse of the Boastful Bastard. When you get crit, restore a panache.
Vest of shed servitude. When you get crit, get a minion for 7 rounds.
Khepresh of refuge is 63k gp! But, it has 3 charges per day to use to negate sneak attacks and crits (or reroll a failed save) and gives +3 deflection AC and fire resistance 10.
Amulet of the Blooded (Aberrant) will give you light fortification.
Bracelet of Second Chances costs 15750 but gives 7 uses of sneak/crit negation.
A steadfast gutstone (800gp) lasts 24 hours and soaks up 10 damage from a crit or sneak.
Steelhand circle gives you 1/d: medium fortification.
Fortification works sometimes.
Denying (not pfs) is a +4 armor mod that gives you 1/d vs sneak and 1/d vs crits, and can be recharged per day if you're mythic.
Withstanding (maybe pfs soon?) includes medium fortification, but for a creature type as per Bane.
Clangorous is a +1 shield mod that can creater a Sound Burst when you get crit?
Martyring is an 18k gp mod that casts mass CLW on your allies when you get crit.
Anti sneak attack
If you've got uncanny dodge, an Amulet of Uncanny Defense gives you improves uncanny dodge at 4 rogue levels higher than what you have, making other rogues need to be higher to sneak you.
Also, many of the above crit negation things.
I don't think that's entirely safe reasoning.
First to address the implication this is a true-strike sword... no. Not even close. Please could we have a sticky on a true-strike sword being brought up EVERY TIME something hugely over-priced is introduced. And I don't mean close as in +1 isn't a +20, i mean it fundamentally isn't the same sort of thing.
Pricing continuous effect after the table is exactly the same thing as trying to get a True-Strike sword. Or a "Vest of Mage Armor (+4)" for 2000 gp.
+3 perception would be +900gp as it's 3-squared x 100, still well under 4000gp.
Yes. And then add +50% because of multiple abilites on a single item. 1350 is still well under 4000 gp.
You can't treat a bonus other than an enhancement bonus from something completely different from a weapon as if it would be an enhancement bonus for that weapon. If you WERE to do that then you might as well just make ANY item to give a bonus to hit have a set price. So the game suddenly becomes extremely boring and predictable. Money is directly relate-able to the bonus to hit. Also, it's not even a proper enhancement bonus as it's +1 to hit, not +1 to damage.
Only a +1 to hit, that's more like the bonus from being Masterwork which is 300gp equivalent.
Wrong. Just so wrong.
First of all: A +1 COMPETENCE BONUS TO ATTACK HAS A KNOWN PRICE OF 2000 GP. DO NOT IGNORE THIS FACT.
Secondly: THAT +1 TO HIT STACKS WITH THE MASTERWORKED EQUIVALENT.
Are you seriously implying that different kinds of bonuses to Attack should all have the price of 300 gp each? You should keep in mind that the Masterwork bonus becomes obsolete when you get your magic weapon, as enhancement bonuses doesn't stack.
*****
If the old Bracers of Falcon's Aim didn't grant the crit-increasing effect, then they would have a price of 3350 gp.
I'm confident the crit-increasing effect is a tad bit stronger than to be valued at 650/1.5 gp.
Stuff
(sighs)
Competence to skill +3, 900 gp.
+1 Comp to Hit = Pale green cracked ioun stone, 1/2 = 2k.
Stacking +crit range OR + Crit mod - 10 to 20k effect.
Multiply for unaffiliated slot, x 1.5 or x2. Comp and +1 TH are secondary effects, so also x1.5.
Value - Even if we start at 10k, the two secondary effects are going to be 2900 x 1.5 for secondaries, which puts us about 14,400 gp.
Then we have to figure that competence bonuses, TH bonuses and critical effects are weapon effects, not associated with bracers, and so price increase. Easy 20k. Which puts it in Greater Bracers of Archery area, which is about right.
The power of the bracers is not that people can take Keen or Improved Critical, it's that they DO NOT HAVE TO, a point you seem to be missing. THey can buy away the feat or the multiplier (a unique effect!), and it stacks with their +10 weapon.
So, no, your reasoning is not good by any stretch of the imagination. It's about having to make a choice with your money between equally good options at that level, not about having a no-brainer to take the Bracers because it's that much better. I really don't believe you tried to make a magic item pricing argument 'because then they can't afford it until level 8!'
And that argument about having to take Fate's Favored and then "WAIT" for the benefit?! wth was that? Fate's Favored works for you at level 1 if you are a half-orc, and 2 if you are an archeologist, and just gets better with time.
And you have heard of the Extra Traits feat, right? Take that feat...+1 to all saves, TH, dmg, AC, and skill/ability checks. Oh, and you get ANOTHER trait, on top of it. At anytime you choose to take it.
WTH, man?
Or, to put it another way:
+3 bonus Comp to Percept, as Eyes of Eagle, non-eye slot x 1.5 - 1350 gp.
+1 TH missiles, as Cracked Pale Green Ioun stone, half price, non-affiliated slot x 1.5- 3000 gp.
Keen/Improved Mod, as +1 Enhancement non-weapon = Deliquescent Gloves, non-affiliated slot - 12k.
Lesser abilities x 1.5 as secondary abilities. 2k and 4500 gp.
Final price, 18,500 gp or so. Based on current magic items.
==Aelryinth
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@Alex
I feel as if you may not have read other's post while you argued with Aelryinth, which might explain how you missed the gold cost of an competence bonus to attack.
I'm just pointing out the flaw in the logic of treating it as if it was sneaking in a weapon enhancement bonus, because it isn't. It's only +1 to hit, not to damage, LIKE Masterwork. The wondrous item simply is not giving any weapon you hold a +1 enhancement bonus for only 4000gp. And it's unsound reasoning to present the situation as such.
Agreed. The people who argue that the Greater Bracers of Archery are fairly priced often mention that it is like "+1.5" to your weapon. But it's not like you would pay more for a Ring of Deflection just because you already have an Amulet of Natural armor.
Actually, after all this, the Lesser Bracers of Archery are way overpriced, certainly it's cheaper to even get that ioun stone.
Yes. The price of Bracers of Archery is actually the price of weapon proficiency. The bonus to attack (which archers use them for), has a price increase of +150%, since it should just have a price of 2,000 gp.
The real leap is when people fettle a calculated price of around 3350gp and between that and 4000gp notice the crit-feat equivalent... and from that jump to an insane amount. 10k, 20k. Whatever number. It'll be 25k next time I look. Why not invent a bigger number? Feats don't have prices. And then from that disparity from 4k they reason it must be fine to vacillate to the opposite extreme of Once per day on command item.
I think it should have just been re-priced at 6000gp.
There are examples of feats you can buy with gold, all of them being no-requirement ones with a price of 5,000 gp. (Endurance, Alertness)
So at the very least, the (old) Bracers of Falcon's Aim should have had a price of 5000 + 2000*1.5 + 900*1.5 = 9350 gp.
But the relevant feat has a requirement of +9 BAB and is therefore stronger than these examples for 5000 gp.
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By my count it's still around 6k because replication of Keen should be 3k at most, arms are affiliated with using weapons, there is no such thing as increasing the cost for being in "non-affiliated slot" it just says it generally shouldn't be there, but it IS. At a push it's 7k
Your price of 7k for continuous doesn't match their value of the effect at 1/day as 4k. So if they allowed it continuous, it would be at minimum 12k (3/day is usually the same price as unlimited.)
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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"spell level 1, CL1, but the spell is 1 minute per level so multiply by two" if after all that you then have to see if any other magic item does the same thing and then price according to that.
You have the order wrong, you check other items and then only when not found you go to the chart.
may not match with any consistent rules because someone just decreed that is the way it is without needing any damn reason or consistency.
Actually, it is very consistent and has good reasons. Items are priced such that you have to consider whether or not to buy the item. If an item is "required", it is priced incorrectly. The only exempted items are the big 6 which the monsters are designed around a PC having.
There are examples of feats you can buy with gold, all of them being no-requirement ones with a price of 5,000 gp. (Endurance, Alertness, IUS)
So at the very least, the (old) Bracers of Falcon's Aim should have had a price of 5000 + 2000*1.5 + 900*1.5 = 9350 gp.
But the relevant feat has a requirement of +9 BAB and is therefore stronger than these examples for 5000 gp.
Which just begs the question. Why EVER bother with spells equivalent for any magic items?
You can't use them, apparently, if you have to go "well it's spell level 1, CL1, but the spell is 1 minute per level so multiply by two" if after all that you then have to see if any other magic item does the same thing and then price according to that.
So just forget about the whole table, just go straight to looking for other items that do the same sort of things and apply multipliers to them. No matter what spell it's replicating the pricing will be revised and re-calculated on what other magic items that do similar things.
This idea obviously totally devalues magic items relative to actual spells because spells can't ever be better than enhancement bonuses.
From years of magic item crafting, I can share with you the pearl of all the wisdom I have accumulated.
Stay away from continuous magic items based on static bonus spells.
The table is good for making scrolls, wands, and different variants of the already existing Big 6, and allows you to de-construct existing items.
The spells which you should try to base your new items on should be those with an effect not found in the table. Like magic makeup based on "Youthful Appearance".
And "Bed of Iron", which would allow you to sleep in heavy armor without getting fatigued.
But there's a question of supremacy. IF two magic items do similar things but for different prices does the more expensive one prove the cheaper one is under priced or does the cheaper one prove the more expensive one is overpriced.
Follow the table. That should be enough. A +3 Deflection bonus to AC has a known price, regardless if you can find a spell which would do it for a lesser price.
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The best I see is the Amulet of the Blooded (Destined), 10k gp. "+2 luck bonus on all saving throws and to AC during surprise rounds or any time he is otherwise unaware of an attack."
So your advice is to take an item that costs significantly more, only works situationally, and keeps me from getting a +5 bonus to AC (amulet of natural armor)?
How is that not a trap?
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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The problem with the luck ac bonus was that a fighter could use it to get AC 36 by level 7 and 24,000 gp.
That is a problem for the underlying system.
Killing the item (and luck bonus in general) is a good thing. Moving the item to say a body slot so it doesn't work with armor would help monk's and other unarmored folk without pushing fighters to 36.
The problem with the luck ac bonus was that a fighter could use it to get AC 36 by level 7 and 24,000 gp.
That is a problem for the underlying system.
Killing the item (and luck bonus in general) is a good thing. Moving the item to say a body slot so it doesn't work with armor would help monk's and other unarmored folk without pushing fighters to 36.
That Fighter with the 36 AC would be carrying a giant neon sign that says "Ignore me!" or "Save me for last!" Because any NPC with half a brain will not be attacking them after a couple rounds of absolute whiffs, especially if they rolled 18's and 19's and still missed.
Also, if that Fighter can reach 36 AC, then consider the rest of his character build. He probably doesn't do a whole lot of damage, or have a lot of to-hit. He probably can't use Combat Maneuvers too well. He probably can't move too fast, nor might he have extremely good Saves or CMB/CMD. Touch AC can still be a big problem for someone who's wearing Heavy Armor, even if he has Deflection, Luck, Insight, etc.
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That Fighter with the 36 AC would be carrying a giant neon sign that says "Ignore me!"
Also, if that Fighter can reach 36 AC, then consider the rest of his character build. He probably doesn't do a whole lot of damage, or have a lot of to-hit. He probably can't use Combat Maneuvers too well. He probably can't move too fast, nor might he have extremely good Saves or CMB/CMD. Touch AC can still be a big problem for someone who's wearing Heavy Armor, even if he has Deflection, Luck, Insight, etc.
I've played that character, Roland, to 11th level. When I'm out with friends, like last night playing a level 5 PFS game, they still bring up how much that character annoyed the GM. When you annoy the GM apparently you get attacked a lot.
Roland was a AC 35 (at level 7) guy using a Sundering Adamantine Temple Sword dealing 1d8+13 with Greater Sunder to break (usually in one hit) just about every enemy armor or weapons was "hit on a 2" with a +23 Sunder CMB.
If you can't hit us because I broke your weapons, then you can't harm us.
In the cases where the enemy was a creature without weapons or armor, I'd fall back to grapple with +20 Greater Grapple, which also usually got me there.
That Fighter with the 36 AC would be carrying a giant neon sign that says "Ignore me!"
Also, if that Fighter can reach 36 AC, then consider the rest of his character build. He probably doesn't do a whole lot of damage, or have a lot of to-hit. He probably can't use Combat Maneuvers too well. He probably can't move too fast, nor might he have extremely good Saves or CMB/CMD. Touch AC can still be a big problem for someone who's wearing Heavy Armor, even if he has Deflection, Luck, Insight, etc.
I've played that character, Roland, to 11th level. When I'm out with friends, like last night playing a level 5 PFS game, they still bring up how much that character annoyed the GM. When you annoy the GM apparently you get attacked a lot.
Roland was a AC 35 (at level 7) guy using a Sundering Adamantine Temple Sword dealing 1d8+13 with Greater Sunder to break (usually in one hit) just about every enemy armor or weapons was "hit on a 2" with a +23 Sunder CMB.
If you can't hit us because I broke your weapons, then you can't harm us.
In the cases where the enemy was a creature without weapons or armor, I'd fall back to grapple with +20 Greater Grapple, which also usually got me there.
I'm surprised you actually managed to acquire a Greater Grapple feat; that usually requires a fair amount of Dexterity, as well as Improved Unarmed Strike, and Improved Grapple, and at Level 7, no less.
The thing is, Grapple is usually unreliable because enemies are going to be Huge size or larger most of the time, and Sunder requires manufactured items, which a lot of Huge size or larger creatures don't use. Their size also exponentially increases the strength to hit them. Not to mention, breaking potentially valuable loot. (Which doesn't matter in PFS.)
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At level 7 I had:
STR 18 DEX 13 CON 14 INT 11 WIS 8 CHA 7
Half-Orc (+2 STR) | Shaman's Apprentice (Endurance) | Gatecrasher (Sunder bonus)
1 Barbarian 1 Guntank (Heavy Armor and Tower Shield proficiency)
1 Power Attack
2 Monk 1 Maneuver Master (pre-errata for no Full Plate) Improved Sunder
3 Tribal Scars (6 HP & +5 movement)
3 Monk 2 Improved Grapple
4 Fighter 1 Lore Warden Weapon Focus
4 +1 STR
5 Fighter 2 Dodge
5 (retrained later)
6 Fighter 3
7 Fighter 4 (Weapon Spec)
7 Greater Sunder
Retrain 3rd level to Greater Grapple
Also had an Ochre Rhomboid for Grabbing Style
Retrained HP 7 times and picked 4 FCB +1 HP
7th level HP was 77 HP (14+10+6*6+7+6+4)
My weakness were touch attacks (AC 12), Low HP (77), low speed (25) and will saves (+5). But I was never ignored.
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The thing is, Grapple is usually unreliable because enemies are going to be Huge size or larger most of the time, and Sunder requires manufactured items, which a lot of Huge size or larger creatures don't use.
That made me ponder, so I whipped up a
If you know unix/linux/macos you get this, otherwise please ignore (it calculates the average CMD of level 7-11 PFS scenarios)
Average 23.4474 of 532 entries
So +20 is 5+ for Grapple on EVERY monster big or small on average and Sunder of 23 is "hits everything on a 2 on average".
will +5
So you were really good at grappling and sundering your own party?
*sells jingasa, buys dusty rose prism*
Buffering cap. The +1 ac is nice, not dying from the x4 crit is amazing though.
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will +5So you were really good at grappling and sundering your own party?
I failed a save twice that took me out of the fight in the life of the character.
But I also had a (also errated) cap of the free thinker.
True to be told, Roland was many times errata:
Monk Maneuver Master no longer works with armor.
Cap of the Free Thinker changed to "1/day reroll failed".
Feather Step boots changed to 1/day
Jingasa changed to deflection which I already had via ring.
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Wouldn't you rather have the mode instead of the average?
Mode is 17, so VERY good for me.
28 CMD 23
28 CMD 18
27 CMD 20
26 CMD 25
26 CMD 22
26 CMD 19
25 CMD 27
23 CMD 21
23 CMD 15
22 CMD 30
22 CMD 16
21 CMD 31
20 CMD 28
19 CMD 26
17 CMD 29
17 CMD 24
14 CMD 35
11 CMD 13
10 CMD 34
10 CMD 33
10 CMD 12
10 CMD 0
9 CMD 38
9 CMD 36
9 CMD 32
9 CMD 14
6 CMD 37
5 CMD 39
5 CMD 11
3 CMD 10
2 CMD 9
2 CMD 41
1 CMD 49
1 CMD 48
1 CMD 47
1 CMD 46
1 CMD 44
1 CMD 43
1 CMD 40
The problem with the luck ac bonus was that a fighter could use it to get AC 36 by level 7 and 24,000 gp.
And this is a problem over the fighter who has AC 35 by level 7 how?
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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The problem with the luck ac bonus was that a fighter could use it to get AC 36 by level 7 and 24,000 gp.And this is a problem over the fighter who has AC 35 by level 7 how?
If it works for the fighter, it is bad (breaks the whole math of the system if anyone can reach 35-40 AC)
If it doesn't work for the fighter, it narrows the gap between the fighter and the non-fighter AC. Improves the game as opposed to harms.