7–98: Serpents' Ire (GM Prep & Discussion)

[GM Lamplighter]

Pretty sure the all-pregen scenarios need special rules like the goblin ones to handle deaths etc...

[UndeadMitch]

nosig wrote:

Anyone else notice that the new policy on assigning this to a PC number BEFORE you even know what the characters are means that anyone actually accepting the offer to run the Prisoner - looses the Chronicle for this game? Along with the PC he was planning to assign this game to?

Judge: "Well, you were running Zurnzal - but he got his head bit off and his brain swallowed. This means you need to get a Resurrection... 'Cause Raise Dead requires the entire body. Don't have the 32PP for it? 10, 910 gp please..."

Player: "What? You asked if I would prefer to continue the adventure as Aaog-Shagga. And I didn't really like Zurnzal...."

Judge: "Yeah, it was your choice. Let's see, what PC did you assign this to? Your Dash 3 PC? Here's your Chronicle for him, marked with your 'condition - brainless' - you'll need to get it removed before you leave the table..."

Do we point this out to the players? Or just spring it on them as a "gotcha"? (That last is sarcasm)

Nosig, quit being an alarmist. First, if someone chooses to take up the prisoner, than that becomes their pregen, so they would only need to clear its conditions. Furthermore, since the prisoner is also able to replace a pregen that died in a previous fight, I would rule that the prisoner would also become that PC's pregen and would be the one that need conditions cleared from. I get you don't like the new policy on pregen death, but keep it to the thread that's already discussing the policy. Don't make up issues that don't exist.

Edit: Fixed spelling, stupid tiny phone keys.

[nosig]

Mitch Mutrux wrote:

nosig wrote:

Anyone else notice that the new policy on assigning this to a PC number BEFORE you even know what the characters are means that anyone actually accepting the offer to run the Prisoner - looses the Chronicle for this game? Along with the PC he was planning to assign this game to?

Judge: "Well, you were running Zurnzal - but he got his head bit off and his brain swallowed. This means you need to get a Resurrection... 'Cause Raise Dead requires the entire body. Don't have the 32PP for it? 10, 910 gp please..."

Player: "What? You asked if I would prefer to continue the adventure as Aaog-Shagga. And I didn't really like Zurnzal...."

Judge: "Yeah, it was your choice. Let's see, what PC did you assign this to? Your Dash 3 PC? Here's your Chronicle for him, marked with your 'condition - brainless' - you'll need to get it removed before you leave the table..."

Do we point this out to the players? Or just spring it on them as a "gotcha"? (That last is sarcasm)

Nosig, quit being an alarmist. First, if someone chooses to take up the prisoner, than that becomes their pregen, so they would only need to clear its conditions. Furthermore, since the prisoner is also able to replace a pregen that died in a previous fight, I would rule that the prisoner would also become that PC's pregen and would be the one that need conditions cleared from. I get you don't like the new policy on pregen death, but keep it to the thread that's already discussing the policy. Don't make up issues that don't exist.

Edit: Fixed spelling, stupid tiny phone keys.

Interesting view.

So, if a PC DOES die, then they player is not out his PC - if he picks up and plays the Prisoner. But if TWO players have their PCs die early - who get's the Prisoner? Do they just "roll off" - looser dies? Or am I expected to pick one?

What happens if the Prisoner then just exits the complex? I mean, just walks out - taking the 0pp, 0gp chronicle, but living thru the game. I know at least one player I would expect to do this.

[Poison Dusk]

Just a suggestion to GMs that are going to run this in the future:

I played this at Gen Con and I opened the door to The Prisoner while invisible. Don't throw out game rules because the scenario says it attacks the person opening it. You may end up with a very unhappy player. I, at least, would find a creative solution if I GM this.

[nosig]

Poison Dusk wrote:

Just a suggestion to GMs that are going to run this in the future:

I played this at Gen Con and I opened the door to The Prisoner while invisible. Don't throw out game rules because the scenario says it attacks the person opening it. You may end up with a very unhappy player. I, at least, would find a creative solution if I GM this.

We are told "If none of the PCs have died, ask the player if he would prefer to continue the adventure as Aaog-Shagga. If he agrees, ..." in other words, the only time the Prisoner attacks the person opening the cage is when the player "ok's" it.

Is this what happened when you played it? did the judge ask you if you wanted to play the Prisoner in the rest of the scenario?

[joe kirner]

The scenario states the prisoner holding back its claws and not being threatening.
This is the same mechanic as in serpents rise allowing a pc to continue the scenario as a monster pc.
The devouring pc and eating its brain is a way to explain the trade off as when pc stayed with hao jin tapestry army in serpents rise.
The pcs could elect to release the prisoner but not play the prisoner. If pc continues as the prisoner, the pc would not walk away. Prisoner needs to/ wants to kill the boss man and eat his brain.

[nosig]

joe kirner wrote:

The scenario states the prisoner holding back its claws and not being threatening.

This is the same mechanic as in serpents rise allowing a pc to continue the scenario as a monster pc.
The devouring pc and eating its brain is a way to explain the trade off as when pc stayed with hao jin tapestry army in serpents rise.
The pcs could elect to release the prisoner but not play the prisoner. If pc continues as the prisoner, the pc would not walk away. Prisoner needs to/ wants to kill the boss man and eat his brain.

I ... do not understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps it is just a Monday for me and my brain is processing slow... Please expand on the point you are making? thank you.

[joe kirner]

nosig wrote:

joe kirner wrote:

The scenario states the prisoner holding back its claws and not being threatening.

This is the same mechanic as in serpents rise allowing a pc to continue the scenario as a monster pc.
The devouring pc and eating its brain is a way to explain the trade off as when pc stayed with hao jin tapestry army in serpents rise.
The pcs could elect to release the prisoner but not play the prisoner. If pc continues as the prisoner, the pc would not walk away. Prisoner needs to/ wants to kill the boss man and eat his brain.

I ... do not understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps it is just a Monday for me and my brain is processing slow... Please expand on the point you are making? thank you.

just expanding on your point.

[Poison Dusk]

Yes, this is what happened to me. The judge took my Inquisitor sheet and handed me the Prisoner. He said "This is what the scenario says happens. Whoever opens the door gets eaten." Definitely ruined the experience for me, as in Serpents Rise I took the dragon and the Judge went off tactics and made me useless.

[nosig]

Poison Dusk wrote:

Yes, this is what happened to me. The judge took my Inquisitor sheet and handed me the Prisoner. He said "This is what the scenario says happens. Whoever opens the door gets eaten." Definitely ruined the experience for me, as in Serpents Rise I took the dragon and the Judge went off tactics and made me useless.

well, the scenario does say...

"If none of the PCs have died, ask the player if he would prefer to continue the adventure as Aaog-Shagga. If he agrees, ..."

:in other words, the only time the Prisoner attacks the person opening the cage is when the player "ok's" it.

Looks like your judge did not do this correctly.

I actually kind of wondered about it myself. If I had been playing and the "monster in the box" attacked/killed one of my team members, I can't see NOT killing the thing right away. No other questions asked... it's kind of hard to believe that the players are going to just stand by and NOT attack the Prisoner...

[BigNorseWolf]

Zurnzal's success conditions seemed a little random, either an ally or equipment could easily be a unique advantage. he also can't make the knowledge planes check he'd need to.

[Poison Dusk]

I will make it clear, I did not join this thread just to complain. I want to point out an error one GM made so others do not do the same.

[Jayson MF Kip]

No one at my table wanted to play the Prisoner, so they opened its cage and it followed along offscreen. It got to the end, the party killed Kar Zweeb, it got it's dinner, announced it "hated this group the least of all humans" and flew off.

[BigNorseWolf]

There doesn't seem to be any advantage to going to 2 places but only acting in one. That seems like an unnecesary complication.

I had an absolite blast playing this one.

Zurnzal and the professional had a very good conversation about a neutral vs evil aspis agent and how we opperate: he tied someone up and left them to be found. I pointed out that a missing person is suspicious, but finding someone eliminates all suspicion. Kill them, hide the body, ransack their room, put some stuff in a bag and make it look like they fled in a hurry.

Z. ran into jolyrn in the fields, that kinda rocketed us towards the breaking in and killing. I wanted to meet up with her to talk, she betrayed us, then shot us with fire so... knock out punch. Learn throw anything, throw her at the wizard.

Dinoplants fight: ran accross the map, played koolaid man with the glass, and started feeding scientists to the dinoplants.

[Majuba]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

There doesn't seem to be any advantage to going to 2 places but only acting in one. That seems like an unnecessary complication.

It was a bit more necessary in the first version. In that, there wasn't any text saying that the use/purpose of the buildings was obvious, so checking two locations let you get an idea of the layout.

[Matthew Morris]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

I wanted to meet up with her to talk, she betrayed us, then shot us with fire so... knock out punch. Learn throw anything, throw her at the wizard.

Quote:

That is awesome

[BigNorseWolf]

Is jolyrns ring for anyone that defeated jolyrn or just for people who played her in Serpents rise?

[KingOfAnything]

Just for people with Spoils of the Siege (Joliryn) on any of their characters. It works like all the other "Somebody's" Foe boons.

[Linda Zayas-Palmer]

Mike Bramnik wrote:

Question about the end of Part 1. The text says 2 Guards+, but the stat blocks suggest it's 3 Guards+. Since Red Alert replaces the encounter in Area B (which has 3 Guards+) that's my guess - but I wanted to check. Thanks in advance!

Yes, it should be 3 Guards+.

[Linda Zayas-Palmer]

Andrew Christian wrote:

So spoiler:

** spoiler omitted **

Serpents' Ire's name is correct.

[Linda Zayas-Palmer]

Elay Silverhair wrote:

I have a question about the "Joliryn's Foe" boon on the Chronicle.

Can I upgrade his masterwork ring to a Wrathful Ring of Spell Storing by paying half of the 16,000gp price? He meets all of the requirements to do so, as far as I can tell.

The issue here is that the ring does not cost 16,000gp—that is merely the special purchase discount provided to the players of this scenario. Its crafting cost would be half of the item's market value, which would be well over 8,000 gp. We are inclined not to allow crafting for half of a discounted price presented on a Chronicle sheet. You can still buy the ring for full price and make it your bonded item if you want to.

[CigarPete]

KingOfAnything wrote:

Just for people with Spoils of the Siege (Joliryn) on any of their characters. It works like all the other "Somebody's" Foe boons.

Just curious, I don't have the Serpent's Rise boon for Joliryn, but normally when you GM a game, you get to choose the boons you receive on your chronicle sheet. I ran Serpent's Ire at GenCon, so can I still get the modified ring?

[UndeadMitch]

No, John and/or Linda specified earlier in the season that GM's had to have Spoils of the Siege (X) to get that NPC's boon in Season 7.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

Its worth remembering (and maybe mentioning to your players that rings of spell storing do have a certain downside):

RING OF SPELL STORING, MINOR wrote:

Aura faint evocation; CL 5th
Slot ring; Price 18,000 gp; Weight —
DESCRIPTION
A minor ring of spell storing contains up to three levels of spells (either divine or arcane, or even a mix of both spell types) that the wearer can cast. Each spell has a caster level equal to the minimum level needed to cast that spell. The user need not provide any material components or focus to cast the spell, and there is no arcane spell failure chance for wearing armor (because the ring wearer need not gesture). The activation time for the ring is the same as the casting time for the relevant spell, with a minimum of 1 standard action.

For a randomly generated ring, treat it as a scroll to determine what spells are stored in it. If you roll a spell that would put the ring over the three-level limit, ignore that roll; the ring has no more spells in it.

A spellcaster can cast any spells into the ring, so long as the total spell levels do not add up to more than three. Metamagic versions of spells take up storage space equal to their spell level modified by the metamagic feat. A spellcaster can use a scroll to put a spell into the minor ring of spell storing.

The ring magically imparts to the wearer the names of all spells currently stored within it.

CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Forge Ring, imbue with spell ability; Cost 9,000 gp

[nosig]

I've got some questions about area D2.

- where is "the north partition"? it is said that "By manipulating controls along the north partition, a creature can raise, lower, or rotate any number of these fixtures."

- related to the above - where exactly is the Unseen Servant? it is said the BBE "left an unseen servant here and can command it to raise and lower any of the features whose forms are outlined on the map." Where are these controls? on the floor? or the east or west walls? both? all three?

It appears to me the "partition" is the raised area in the center of the room - so how is this "the north partition"? If it is actually the raised area, has anyone had Rataji drop a lightning bolt across it (shooting at the BBE) and unknowingly "offing" the servant?

- can the Servant be seen if someone casts see invisible?

[KingOfAnything]

You can see the panel if you look closely at the left side of the northern triangle. The unseen servant is probably in front of it, but I don't think they can be affected by much of anything.

[nosig]

KingOfAnything wrote:

You can see the panel if you look closely at the left side of the northern triangle. The unseen servant is probably in front of it, but I don't think they can be affected by much of anything.

Do you mean the northern side of the eastern triangle? The only triangles I see on the map are the two "observation decks" that are to the east and west on the map. The north side is the door and the south is the summoning circle... If the servant is on the north side of the eastern triangle that puts it at the edge of the casters 50' range... I'll need to be very careful when moving not to move out of that range and loose the Servant.

From the Unseen Servant spell:

An unseen servant is an invisible, mindless, shapeless force that performs simple tasks at your command. It can run and fetch things, open unstuck doors, and hold chairs, as well as clean and mend. The servant can perform only one activity at a time, but it repeats the same activity over and over again if told to do so as long as you remain within range. It can open only normal doors, drawers, lids, and the like. It has an effective Strength score of 2 (so it can lift 20 pounds or drag 100 pounds). It can trigger traps and such, but it can exert only 20 pounds of force, which is not enough to activate certain pressure plates and other devices. It can't perform any task that requires a skill check with a DC higher than 10 or that requires a check using a skill that can't be used untrained. This servant cannot fly, climb, or even swim (though it can walk on water). Its base speed is 15 feet.

The servant cannot attack in any way; it is never allowed an attack roll. It cannot be killed, but it dissipates if it takes 6 points of damage from area attacks. (It gets no saves against attacks.) If you attempt to send it beyond the spell's range (measured from your current position), the servant ceases to exist.

I have several PCs who extensively use unseen servant, and over the years I've had them "popped" many times. Once due to splash weapons thrown by my fellow PCs.

So it would be not be unreasonable to see this one get clipped with an AOE - and take 6 HP damage.

[nosig]

I could use some assistance in understanding how the mechanics of "Part 1: Infiltration the Farm" works.

"this part of the adventure is broken into a limited number of phases that each represent about 20 minutes ... A PC can travel to up to two locations during her turn - in case she wants to peek at both places before making up her mind or cast a spell on an ally - but she can only gather information, search, or perform another significant action at one location in each turn. Major tasks include gathering information, setting traps, stealing research, pilfering keys, exploring the kuthite Temple, and infiltration the manor.... inform the players of the phases mechanic..."

In the two times I have run this before, this takes a surprising amount of time just to explain - and I'm not even really sure I understand it myself. Does casting a spell on an ally count as one of "travel to location" semi-actions? Does "search" a location also include the "go to location" semi-action?

THanks!

[Shifty]

Question on the boon:

"When you defeat one or more agents of the Aspis Consortium, ask your GM to initial after one of these items, granting you access to purchase it. You can gain access to all three items below, but you can only gain access to one item during a single adventure".

Are they saying if any of your characters are able to to defeat or does this refer to the character the chroncle has been applied to?

The use of 'you' rather than stipulating the beneficiary just giving me a moment... maybe its just late at night and my brain got sucked out by some alien brain eating space creature.

[KingOfAnything]

Pretty sure it refers to the character the chronicle is applied to.

[Linda Zayas-Palmer]

nosig wrote:

I could use some assistance in understanding how the mechanics of "Part 1: Infiltration the Farm" works.

"this part of the adventure is broken into a limited number of phases that each represent about 20 minutes ... A PC can travel to up to two locations during her turn - in case she wants to peek at both places before making up her mind or cast a spell on an ally - but she can only gather information, search, or perform another significant action at one location in each turn. Major tasks include gathering information, setting traps, stealing research, pilfering keys, exploring the kuthite Temple, and infiltration the manor.... inform the players of the phases mechanic..."

In the two times I have run this before, this takes a surprising amount of time just to explain - and I'm not even really sure I understand it myself. Does casting a spell on an ally count as one of "travel to location" semi-actions? Does "search" a location also include the "go to location" semi-action?

THanks!

Each PC can go to two locations in each phase. In one of those locations, she can perform a major task. In the other location, she can quickly peek into the location (not searching anything; just taking a cursory glance) or cast a spell on an ally.

[Shifty]

KingOfAnything wrote:

Pretty sure it refers to the character the chronicle is applied to.

That's the way I'm leaning.

[HoloGnome]

Shifty wrote:

KingOfAnything wrote:

Pretty sure it refers to the character the chronicle is applied to.

That's the way I'm leaning.

"You/Your" in the context of a PC-specific scenario boon or boon chronicle always means the specific PC unless there is other clarifying language. For example on the Student of Spells GM Star Reward chronicle, there is the following language "...you have studied the spellcasting secrets...all of your PFS OP characters have access to this spell...."

However, I have two related questions for discussion:

1. Does defeating Kar Zaweeb, the "Electrum Agent", count as defeating an Aspis agent for the purposes of the Esoteric Item Research boon, or do the boon mechanics only kick in for future scenarios?

The boon wording states that crafting and propagation of the items doesn't happen until *after* the scenario ends, so I don't think Kar Zaweeb counts. And, unlocking the boon in the first place is certainly a worthy, in-scenario accomplishment.

But, some might argue that the chronicle has no other treasure items, and if the PCs find things, maybe 1 of those items should be available because of defeating Kar Zaweeb, especially since not every table will have access to the Joliryn's Foe boon (but this latter interpretation is not supported by the boon language, IMO).

2. In the case of a held chronicle (PC < Level 7), boons will not be unlocked until Level 7 for this 7-9 chronicle. So, if a player earns Esoteric Item Research (held/locked), can a GM subsequently note that they defeated an agent in some other scenario on the way to Level 7 so that the boon is prepped for Level 7 access to the item(s), or are they precluded from doing that until the boon is fully unlocked at Level 7?

I go back and forth on this one, but, in the end, maybe it comes down to the clear boon mechanics (not unlocked until Level 7) and considering where a PC would find an Aspis agent with a cloned, sub-tier 7-8 item (in a sub-tier 7-8 run). So, I guess I lean on the side of not initialing unless the boon is fully unlocked and the run is sub-tier 7-8 or higher, since that would be consistent with chronicle mechanics (and items restricted by sub-tier).

But, allowing GMs to initial on the way up to Level 7 would certainly be very PC-friendly and make the boon easier to use when PCs can finally access the items.

Does anyone have any thoughts (or rulings) on these 2 additional issues?

[UndeadMitch]

1) No, Kar Zaweeb doesn't count since the PC's don't earn the boon until after the scenario.

2) With a held boon, the PC does not have access to that boon until the chronicle is applied. Since they do not have the boon yet, they cannot yet start getting credit for defeating Aspis agents.

[Paz]

One part of Eramay's secondary success condition is to 'trigger the tiefling’s code phrase'. In the game I ran tonight, by the time she'd discovered this, the tiefling had already had their brain eaten by a neh-thalggu.

Is Eramay given a free pass in this situation, or is it just tough luck?

[joe kirner]

Needed to do it before tiefling sacrified himself to play the prisoner.
Too late. No free pass. Do not pass go. No $200.

[BigNorseWolf]

Why exactly is the leader in hot water? The attack on skyreach wasn't auhorized? Guesse pathfinder agents aren't the only ones who would take a mission from a talking rutabaga