The Playable Aristocrat- Creating a Noble class

[Denorisn]

One thing pathfinder lacks is a playable aristocrat class. Something akin to game of thrones Lannisters or princess Leia from star wars. its an iconic concept, even the star wars rpg had a noble class back in 3.0. Yet the closest thing paizo has is a vigilante who focuses more on his social identity or has a public persona. So I thought, why not cure my ever loving boredom and make one?

Introducing the Noble!

Bark around your friends! Pretend to be the upper crust! Brag about your family heritage!

As a noble, the class focuses around three things-

• Hire your own bodyguard to protect you or enlist your allies
  
• Use your commanding presence to inspire allies or insult and instill fear in foes
  
• Put your education to good use with a variety of careers to pull talents from
  

Noble endowments are their talents which can grant nobles anything from a mock version of 6th level casting to significant war training, to even proficiency in playing the grand game of politics with underhanded maneuvers.

Check it out. Or don't and continue to be a plebian..

[Lawrence DuBois]

My first question when considering a new class is what role does it fill, and does any other class fill that role? General aristocratic flavour can be filled pretty handily by the rogue or bard, depending on whether your going for more of a Littlefinger/Tywin underhanded manipulator, or the Leia/Queen Vicky inspiring leader. While these classes may have a few extra abilities that are of questionable application to aristocrat character types, an archetype or two - or even mere refluffing - can certainly suffice.

[Ciaran Barnes]

Lawrence, this is the homebrew forum. People write new material because they want to. And while I believe that your suggestion could have merit, we can also take a look at Paizo's 43 classes and see that many of them are unneccessary by your criteria.

STARTING WEALTH
I think you missed something here. Perhaps you can tack on an extra 300 GP or so.

SKILLS
I would be inclined to count this class under the "skill monkey" umbrella and give him 6 skill points.

SAVING THROWS
I don't know what the correct good saving throw for a noble is, and perhaps there isn't a perfect one, but with the class flavor you are presenting I think Will would be a better fit.

PROFICIENCIES
I think what you have is a fine starting point, but many nobles in cinema and other stories are depicted as having some martial talent, even if it's with one or two weapons, or that they can wear heavier armor but disdain it. Whether or not you expand this list is up to you, but you might want to at least include some options that can be selected to gain additional proficiencies.

HIRED HELP
This class feature is pretty vague, and expanded section invites many questions too. How much gold does the noble have to offer any ally? What is required on an ally who gains the benefit of the noble's class features? If hiring an NPC, is it only paid once? What about pay in the future?

EMINENCE
I feel like this could be improved with a point pool (I'm a big fan of point pool. Probably too much so). As written, you have given the noble a group of abilities that could have practically unlimited use in the right situations. An ally simply cannot be affected twice in an hour, but an enemy can. That doesn't completely make sense. If you are against a point pool, perhaps repeated use of an ability will have a lessened effect. For example, each additional time it is used, the creature is affected as though the noble were of lower level.

NOBLE PRESENCE
I feel like a +2 to two choices for three rounds is kind of arbitrary. At high level, the bonus increases, but the duration is still three rounds and the ally still can't get it again for one whole hour. If you're going to go with two choices, then I suggest a +1 bonus. This is more in line with a 1st level spell. I would also implement a level-based duration.

ARISTOCRATIC CHARM / COMMAND / IMPROVED CHARM
Since these are quite literally spells, they should not have unlimited use. All good candidates for a pool pool ability.

MOVE ALLY / ASSAULT
Neither is a spell, but they are kind of kind of like spells.

DREAD MY NAME
I feel as though a powerful noble should be able to invoke a powerful fear into a lowly peasant before 19th level.

ENDOWMENTS
I like the general idea. The noble's power can come from various sources, but specializing grants a special benefit. The one source of affluence that I see missing from this list is Military. Perhaps every time a military endowment is selected, the character gains a new martial weapon proficiency. Although if he takes even a single level in a class with all weapons, that becomes wasted.

QUICK WORDS
I actually like this one, although I am left to wonder if the full-round action provokes attacks of opportunity. I feel this is should go under the eminence abilities.

AURA OF EMINENCE
I think the 1d6 rounds is kind of clumsy, and once again you leave a high level noble to the whim of an arbitrary duration. Not a fan of the -1 DC thing either. This class feature and many of the others need the wording to be more clear.

UNDYING LOYALTY
I really hate this feat. Falling unconscious is sometimes a blessing. If I am at -6 hit points and am still up on my feet, there is a very good chance an enemy will attack and bring me to a hit point total where I am just plain dead. I don't see this as a boon for your allies.

GRAND OLIGARCH
Again, I think uses per day/point pool would help out here.

[legoguy4492]

Well. Little Red Goblin Games made a noble class. You can download it at at the Paizo store for free here. use it for inspiration in designing your version.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Denorisn wrote:

One thing pathfinder lacks is a playable aristocrat class.

Presumably because rooting around in dusky dungeons is peasant work!

[legoguy4492]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Denorisn wrote:

One thing pathfinder lacks is a playable aristocrat class.

Presumably because rooting around in dusky dungeons is peasant work!

How else are you going to impress your rich friends? :)

[johnnythexxxiv]

Playground Adventures made a Royal class a little while back and honestly I thoroughly enjoy it despite its simplistic nature and low power ceiling. It might serve as decent inspiration for what to do (or not do) with your own class.

A couple things I will say right now though, just high Reflex is the worst save progression and doesn't make thematic sense with your class so I would change that to high Will instead (especially since you have the option of becoming a 1/2 caster) or have 2 good saves (probably Reflex and Will) nevermind, just saw Forceful Persona, saves are fine and Noble Presence is too short of a duration. 3 rounds doesn't guarantee it lasts a full fight, so making it a minute or scale up from 3 rounds instead will help make the ability relevant. Aristocratic Charm comes online a little early, I would put Move Ally as the 3rd level eminence and then bump Aristocratic Charm and Command up to 5th and 7th levels. Blowing your standard action to give a single ally an extra move action is totally fair so you won't have to worry about the power level of making that come online earlier.

As far as Aura of Eminence goes, it's very unclear as to what you mean by the last sentence where you're talking about people being affected every 1d6 rounds. Is this instead of once per hour or something completely different? If it does replace the once per hour, does it also replace it for the allies within the first 30 feet? Cause it's pretty easy to read that it's only those in the 35-60 foot range that actually get the 1d6 round benefit. Also, Undying Loyalty could easily either gain a power hike or come online earlier. As it stands it's pretty meh for a 15th level ability.

Some endowments are terrifyingly powerful, particularly Quality Goods. Not being able to sell the items is a moot point when you can still stockpile them. Adamantine Full Plate costs 16650gp to purchase but with this ability you can equip the entire party with it for free AT LEVEL ONE. That's an insane bump to expected wealth by level, and as written can be done out in the middle of the wilderness where no vendors are to be found. It also nearly completely renders Deals irrelevant since you can get the vast majority of the discounted items for free anyway. Another horribly overpowered endowment is Management. The bonus is waaaaaaay too strong, especially since once again it can be taken from first level.

At the other end of the spectrum, Inspiring Persona is useless past 11th level since Aura of Eminence literally does the same thing (in a larger area and with multiple allies to boot) and Swift Eminence should be a baked in feature, not a menu option selection.

There's a lot of poorly defined math in the document, some of which I went over directly in the comments. Make sure that you're actually presenting complete abilities, if I can't tell the duration or magnitude of an ability, chances are a fair few other people can't either.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

legoguy4492 wrote:

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Denorisn wrote:

One thing pathfinder lacks is a playable aristocrat class.

Presumably because rooting around in dusky dungeons is peasant work!

How else are you going to impress your rich friends? :)

Hire adventurers to get the trophies, and then claim the credit. More Falstaffian that way, old boy.

[David knott 242]

Purple Duck Games also published a PDF full of base classes that are basically hybrids of standard classes with the Noble Scion prestige class.

[Lawrence DuBois]

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

we can also take a look at Paizo's 43 classes and see that many of them are unneccessary by your criteria.

I am definitely not going to argue against that point. However, I did mean to look over the class and add some other more specific thoughts, but I was rushed at the time. I do still intend to swing by again tomorrow to rectify that omission, however. Too late to do so tonight.

[swoosh]

Random thoughts about every class feature except bodyguards and endowments:

Class skills: I'd add more knowledge skills. Maybe even just go knowledge(all). Fits a lot of the themes of a noble IMHO. I might have also given them perform, but not really an important skill.

Skill ranks: 6+Int. Everything about this chassis screams skill monkey and they've got a great skill list that they aren't going to be able to do much with normally because they're charisma based.

Proficiencies: Light armor is fine, but I think they should have a couple weapon proficiencies. Dueling, Fencing and Hunting are common enough noble trades that it seems like they should be good at at least one of them, maybe.

Hired Help: Do you actually have to pay another PC gold so you can buff them more often? I don't like that at all.

Eminence: In general I like the idea, but some of them are iffy. I also find it odd that you gain one every odd level from 1-9 and then suddenly only 2 more for the rest of the game. I'd like to see more high level ones, personally.

Noble Presence: Do you pick the two bonuses when you activate the ability? Or when you first hit level 1 and you've locked it in? Why three rounds?

Aristocratic Charm: A first level spell at-will when a Sorcerer is only going to have six of them per day and not even have second level spells yet.

Command: Doesn't have a usage described. Same issue as Aristocratic charm though, assuming it's at-will. Slightly less problematic because at least sorcerers have second level spells and wizards have third now. Slightly more problematic becuase it doesn't have the once per 24 hours clause. Even with the DC reduction very spammable.

Move Ally: Doesn't specify at which level you pick it up.

Improved Charm: This is actually the worst of the lot. You pick it up only one level after a sorcerer can and it doesn't even have a language requirement.

Assault: I spend a standard action and my ally spends an immediate action to make one attack? Even at 3/4th BAB with no damage class feature it seems like the noble would be better off full attacking with a ranged weapon. Maybe if you really need that move and your allies don't use swifts, but very much not impressed here.

Dread My Name: Not bad. Powerful, but it's level 19 so that's fine.

Quick Words: No complaints. Nifty.

Aura of Eminence: Very powerful and problematic with certain eminences. I hate to be a broken record, but this gives the Noble a better (no HD cap) Mass Charm Person one level after a sorcerer does. Also, this suddenly turns Assault from a crappy eminence to a pretty great one. Activate it to throw three or more attacks at an enemy as a standard action and your buddies still get to full attack on their turn. Huge if you have a few ranged sorts.

Undying Loyalty: A slightly better version of a bad level 3 feat at level 15? Not impressed. Have to agree with Ciaran that I'd almost want to turn this class feature off entirely.

Grand Oligarch: At-Will Ex version of a ninth level spell. But it's a capstone so who even cares. Cool.

Bodyguards look okay mostly, but Warriors can kind of lock people down forever with Challenge as long as they can not die. Intimidate checks aren't that hard to make.

Will look more at bodyguards and endowments later.

[PK the Dragon]

legoguy4492 wrote:

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Denorisn wrote:

One thing pathfinder lacks is a playable aristocrat class.

Presumably because rooting around in dusky dungeons is peasant work!

How else are you going to impress your rich friends? :)

I wasn't going to say anything, but since we're talking about this point, there IS the Noble Scion Prestige class. It's not the best prestige class, but it revolves around Leadership so it's far from the worst.

So yeah, Pathfinder absolutely has a playable aristocrat class.