Shield Brace

[ZanThrax]

Now that I've had a chance to read shield brace, I've decided that my next character will be a polearm & shield fighter. But it's not particularly clear how exactly shield brace works.

Armour Masters' Handbook wrote:

Benefit: You can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient. The shield's armour check penalty (if any) applies to attacks made with the weapon.

So, does the spear remain two-handed, or do I weild it one-handed like a phalanx fighter? If it remains two-handed, can I take two-weapon fighting and progress down the shield bashing feat chain toward shield master, or is this like the greatsword & shield spikes idea where two-weapon fighting is impossible even if the rules seem to imply otherwise?

[Manly-man teapot]

No. You're still wielding a two-handed weapon, you're just also getting the defensive benefit of your shield.

[CBDunkerson]

It depends on the intended meaning of "using" in the text;

1: It means you are able to use the shield defensively. You still get your full shield bonus to AC while attacking with a two-handed weapon.

2: It means you are able to wield a spear or polearm and shield at the same time, but are still otherwise subject to the normal rules for both. So... you would always threaten at 5' (with the shield) and 10' (with a reach weapon), but if you made a shield bash attack during any given turn then you would be unable to attack with the two-handed weapon (and vice versa) during that turn. This is essentially the same as the greatsword and armor spikes situation... you have both, but you can only use one or the other at a time.

3: It means you are able to wield a spear or polearm and shield at the same time as if fighting with two-weapons. This leaves many questions open; what are the TWF penalties for a 2H weapon, is the 2H weapon treated as a 1H weapon and thus only gets 1x (or 0.5x if considered off-hand) strength bonus to damage rather than 1.5x, et cetera.

Given the absence of the additional information which would be needed to make option 3 viable, I don't think that was likely to be the intent. From there it is unclear whether they would have thought through all the issues to arrive at 2, or just intended the simple explanation of 1.

I will probably treat it as option 2 unless further clarification is given.

[Raylol]

Similar thread

Bonus question: Assuming you are not allowed to go the shield bashing line because you only get the AC bonus, but cant use the shield, would you still be able to use double weapons ?

[CBDunkerson]

Raylol wrote:

Bonus question: Assuming you are not allowed to go the shield bashing line because you only get the AC bonus, but cant use the shield, would you still be able to use double weapons ?

It can be used with weapons in the spear and polearm weapon groups. There are double weapons in those groups. Ergo... yes it can be used with (some) double weapons.

[Kazaan]

You wield the spear/polearm 2-h as normal. In order to count it as 1-h, it has to state that you wield it one-handed, as a one-handed weapon, or that it counts as a one-handed weapon. In fact, you aren't even wielding it "in one hand" like a Lance while mounted. What it does is that it makes a hand holding a shield also capable of contributing towards the hand requirements of wielding the spear/polearm (normally, the hand is occupied and cannot contribute to wielding the spear/polearm). Also note that you can still make shield bash attacks with the shield, just so long as they aren't off-hand attacks. If you have +6 BAB, you could make your +6 attack with the spear and the +1 attack with the shield. But you couldn't make an off-hand attack with the shield since your off-hand attack economy is already subsumed to wield the 2-h weapon. And, lastly, yes, if there is a double weapon in the spear or polearm group, you can use it and TWF with it as a double weapon while still using the shield. Note that, if TWFing with a double weapon, the shield's armor check penalty applies to the "weapon" which means you apply it to attacks with either head.

[Ravingdork]

The rule is pretty clear. You can use both. There is nothing saying that anything else changes, so you use both normally.

[CBDunkerson]

Ravingdork wrote:

The rule is pretty clear. You can use both. There is nothing saying that anything else changes, so you use both normally.

Unfortunately, 'normally' is subjective. No Shield/2H weapon two-weapon fighting is the salient point IMO.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

The feat does what it says it does (which is "you can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient"). As Ravingdork says, there are no other restrictions sans the ACP applies to your to-hit, which means you're getting the benefit of 1.5x Strength on your two-handed iteratives with the AC benefits of the Shield.

I will, however, point out that this is still subject to the Armor Spikes FAQ, in that you cannot TWF with both the Spear/Polearm and the Shield at the same time, as that breaks the unwritten rule (as stupid as it is).

That being said, this feat extremely changes the balance between Two-Handing Martials and TWFing towards the Two-Handing's favor, since they can have just as much AC as someone who is TWF with one (or two) shield(s), and deal their highest modifier damage more consistently, without sacrificing anything more than a couple feats, and maybe allocating some of their currency resources toward their shield defenses, whereas before it was a gamble of "Kill them before they kill me." Now, that risk is reduced substantially early game, and somewhat in the late game.

I wouldn't allow this at my table, primarily for the factor that this is too strong for it to be ready within the first few levels of a character. Granted, there are Fighter archetypes that do exactly what this feat does, but they're locked behind class features, as I feel something of this power and/or flavor should be.

**EDIT**

Even with a Light Shield, you can put the Nodachi in the Shield hand to cast a spell or use other effects requiring a free hand, and swap it back, meaning that Paladins and Clerics and similar character types are much more powerful, either defensive-wise or offensive-wise.