Perhaps....
Spoiler:the camera was placed there by the people he worked for and he wouldn't have cared?
Plausible, but why?
MMMmmm...
T'challa.....MMMM!!!
So good, so good!
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I saw it and loved it, my new #1 Marvel movie. They did a great job giving all the characters a little something to do throughout the film.
-The rapport between Wanda and Vision, I wonder if they will explore that further.
- The buddy thing they started between Falcon and WS. I just love what they've done with Falcon. I want Anthony Mackie to have his own movie now. The theater laughed so hard at "I hate you."
-Everything Antman/Giantman did. The Giantman battle, even though it was spoiled for me by Lego toys (grrrr), was wonderful. I agree that Scott should have sought a little more assurance that what they were doing was worth the cost to him personally.
-I may have misunderstood this but I liked how they indicate that Vision does not control the infinity gem, which would explain why he wasn't powerful enough to take on everybody. And it seemed like this loss of control is partly why Rhodes got hurt.
-I like how they portrayed Black Panther. He was regal and powerful and while I'm a little fuzzy on his actions during the movie, I liked how he overcome his anger and need for revenge whereas Stark could not.
-I'm glad that IronMan didn't completely overshadow everyone else which was a big fear of mine. I loathe IM3 because of that.
-All things Cap, I thought the Russos did a great job with the character.
Nitpicks:
-Crossbones. Ugh, the fight scene was way too chaotic and why, why, why must Marvel kill off it's villains?
-Zemo. Why use Zemo if you going to change everything about him? If Cap had remembered the name as someone he fought in WWII, so they connected it a little to the comics, then I would have been happy. His motivation and plan executions as a villain were very cool despite all that. And I knew I was never going to see the purple mask (sob).
-Spiderman. I know in this day and age of tech and surveillance that it was probably pretty easy for Stark to figure out who Peter was.
But it still bothers me that they went down that road.
And I don't like that SM's suit and some tech come from Stark, not Peter.
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Spoiler:- The buddy thing they started between Falcon and WS. I just love what they've done with Falcon. I want Anthony Mackie to have his own movie now. Then theater laughed so hard at "I hate you."
I also liked that, and
I really enjoyed it the movie and was extremely glad that time was spent building up each characters reaction to events to avoid making it feel forced. Sure there's a lot of moments where the arguments felt really really weak to logic, but most of those were emotional arguments which by and large tend to be.
** spoiler omitted **
And I had one minor complaint regarding the sheer improbability of:
** spoiler omitted **
Also is it really unlikely that an espionage agency like SHIELD/HYDRA would NOT have been able to get their mitts on a tape of the death of one of their agency's CO-FOUNDERS?
At this point one of the questions we should be asking is not how they got the tape but WHO ELSE KNEW? Peggy Carter? Nick Fury? Pretty sure Alexander Pierce knew.
I mean this is not new information. Arnim Zola all but says this in his bit of exposition to Steve and Natasha during THE WINTER SOLDIER. Which is probably the confrontation that prompted Natasha do the data dump that she does at the end of that movie. And the movie makes it pretty clear that Zemo got it from that data dump. He even says that the files were encrypted but he has experience with that sort of thing.
** spoiler omitted **I also liked that, and ** spoiler omitted **
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Civil War performed admirably this weekend, hauling in 182M domestically. Note, that the movie was projected to match Avenger's 200M opening, so it actually *underperformed*. Its 182M opening weekend puts it as the 5th largest uninflated opening, behind the 2 Avengers films, Jurassic World, and The Force Awakens. Civil War had a 15M better opening weekend than BvS did back in March. It added another 200+ M internationally, to bring its overseas numbers up to 496M, for a 1* weekend total of 678M.
The Jungle Book is inching up on the 800M mark overall, and might just get by it. Similarly in the performing 2x as well internationally, BvS put on another 1M this weekend to bring its domestic numbers to 327M (865 international). Believe it or not, Deadpool still played on over 300 screenings, pulling in a 1/4 M, grand totaling 762M.
Deadpool, as of this week, still leads the domestic 2016 releases. With Civil War *only* earning roughly 50% of Deadpool's domestic in weekend 1, are we gonna see it overtake the Merc with a Mouth? Civil War, in my opinion, was certainly a better film than Deadpool, but unless it can hold its weekly drops to less than 50%, it may be a finished race before it started. I myself, expected Civil War to have a Star Wars like opening weekend, particularly after all the international Hype Train this past week, but it fell 60M short of that mark, even playing on 100 more screens.
Putting some numbers to Civil War's future performance. If we give a typical 50% drop weekend to weekend, Civil War would have to keep going strong into week 8 or 9 to finally beat Deadpool. And this is rough rounded up math, it might even take that additional weekend to week 10 to push over Deadpool's current 362M. If this weekend, God forbid, it has a 60% drop off like BvS did, that's a 19M difference that absolutely spells its doom on taking the #1 domestic spot.
Another thing that Civil War has in its way of Deadpool's crown, is Xavier's School for Unaging Persons: Now with 100% more purple. Apocalypse comes out the weekend after next, giving only 2 weekends for Civil War to have a clear box office. How much additional fall out will the Cap see in weekend 4* when X-Men are pulling a 150M+ box office? Could we actually be seeing a year that a movie with a 60M budget with B-List comedic actors is such a sleeper hit that not 2 but 3 A-List Blockbusters (and maybe even a B,C-List filled Star Wars train come Rogue One time) cannot overtake it?
Looking ahead at the year, for Blockbusters and possible competition we have the following:
May:
Apocalypse`
June:
TMNT2`
Warcraft
ID4 Resurgence`
July:
Ice Age
Star Trek Beyond`
August:
Suicide Squad`
September:
Nothing big. Bridget Jones or Magnificent Seven?
October:
There's apparently Underworld 5 coming out!
Jack Reacher 2
November:
Fantastic Beasts`
December:
Rogue One`
Assassin's Creed
Of all this Blockbuster releases, I've ` marked 7 of them that I feel have a reasonable chance of beating Deadpool's 362M. Realistically, if Civil War, a tent pole movie from a tent pole studio, can't beat Deadpool, Star Wars is the only thing that *can*.
Never write off Fantastic Beasts, though. Potter Fandom is still pretty strong, and it will be a very successful movie. Past Star Wars, this is the only real competitor, in my eyes. And Ice Age number 1100 will make a strong showing as well, but I just don't see a kids movie *sequel* beating the original Zootopia, which is #2 on the year.
So in a nutshell, the 15M drop from expectations for Civil War may have cemented it as a #3-5 for the year instead of fighting Star Wars for #1.
Thanks for the box office info, archmagi1.
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The movie set up how much Tony has been unable to move on from his parent's death with the MIT lecture and the Iron Man movies have established that he's fairly regularly very emotionally fragile (alcohol abuse in IM2, obsessiveness in AoU) especially without Pepper Potts and so I think the way he reacted was completely in character with the universe
Archmagi, I wonder if we will see that traditional drop for next weekend with this film? Mostly because with Mother's Day being on Sunday here in the U.S., that may have impacted performance for the weekend, and those folks may push over their viewing until next week. I will say that when I worked in the theatre industry years ago, we sometimes saw that. (I offer that information in a limited capacity, because the nature of that business has changed drastically since I was in theatre management some twenty years ago.)
I saw this film yesterday, and I really enjoyed it. One of the top five Marvel movies for me. 2018 and the Black Panther movie can't get here fast enough. Freehold DM told me I'd love the character, and he was right.
I don't think Sunday was the issue for civil war. The analysts at boxofficemojo put most of its lag on a poorer than expected Friday. I hope mothers day was a factor, though, and it pulls a very strong weekend 2.
Makes sense. Disappointing, but makes sense.
Thanks!
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I know some folks that didn't want to go see Civil War because there were rumors that
Some also did not want to see a movie where the good guys fight each other.
Hopefully the ones from group one will give it a shot after they hear from folks that is not the case, but I think it would take some convincing for people in group two to go see it.
I'm also wondering if BvS was bad enough to get some folks to want to take a break from super hero movies for a while in general.
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In the mcu, I think spider man and ant man are the only true masked hero at this point. All the avengers are public. Dr Strange was name dropped in winter soldier. Black Panther outed himself when he was arrested in the Bucky Chase in civil war. Ant man is known in small circles only, and spidey and Tony are the spider man knowledge circle. With the phase 3 movies, wasp probably enters in the masked category as well. I'm guessing captain marvel will end up being a pretty open identity as well.
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I haven't watched IM3, but was Tony overshadowed by others in that one?-I'm glad that IronMan didn't completely overshadow everyone else which was a big fear of mine. I loathe IM3 because of that.What. You loath a character for being important in their own movie?
No, the movie is about PTSD and how to deal with it. And it is focused much more on Tony than on Iron Man. Which I liked.
Please excuse this post, it's probably going to sound whiny and overly dramatic:
Iron Man has been my favorite character since I was a kid. I don't really know why, there was just something I liked about the character. The character didn't always get the "a-list" treatment from Marvel, but whatever.
Then the movies happened and Iron Man was great, perfect casting, great movie. You'd think that would have extended to the comics, but, no, Marvel wrote the train wreck that was Civil War and World War Hulk and pretty much ruined the character in the comics for nearly a decade.
But there was still the MCU, surely Marvel wouldn't do the same garbage to the character there, right? Wrong. They announced a MCU "Civil War". But, hey, it's the guys who made Winter Solider, that was a great movie, so they won't screw it up this time, right? Wrong again.
I'm sitting there watching the movie, enjoying it, thinking it might actually live up to the hype. Then it happened:
They ruined Iron Man even harder in the movie than they ever did the comics.
Watching the final act of this disgrace of a movie was like coming home on your anniversary catching your wife cheating on you, and then being kicked in the balls over and over by her. The inexplicably positive fan reaction to the movie only makes it worse because it's like everyone you know is telling you how great it was seeing your wife kick you in the balls over and over after she cheated on you.
Oh and then the movie literally ends with
Thanks for ruining the MCU for me, Marvel. I'm not even angry really, more disappointed.
I know it's a pretty ridiculous reaction, but it was just a huge let down for me.
/vent
Anyway, I get that most everyone else loved this movie and think it's the best MCU movie yet. Wish I felt the same way.
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Hey ninja, it's cool, everyone is allowed to feel their feelings. I can understand your frustration with the characterization of Iron Man.
I will offer this, the point of the Civil War story is to set the stage for a different status quo in the MCU. Yes, Stark makes some bad decisions, but he's also been shown to be so incredibly bad at dealing with trauma.
Nobody acknowledges that Tony Stark suffers from PTSD, and perhaps has been since his parent's deaths. That his anxieties are getting worse with each horrible event he encounters. His obsession with the armour is symbolic. Where Hulk is a raw nerve, Iron Man pushes everyone away because of his fear of being hurt.
By the climax of the movie:
Zemo engineered a situation to make Stark snap, Steve, Natasha, betray him. His best friend is paralysed by the AI he created. He's trying to make everyone accountable for events he is responsible for.
In the end:
So all he wants to do is close off one trauma, because the puppet masters responsible for her death can't be found, all he can do is kill they guy who killed his mum. Nobody can really hold that against him. Even Cap realizes it too when he still offers to come to his aid.
Iron Man was treated much better in this movie than he was in the original comic it was based on. No hero is perfect, but Tony Stark is a bit more imperfect than most that's what makes him one of the greats.
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-I'm glad that IronMan didn't completely overshadow everyone else which was a big fear of mine. I loathe IM3 because of that.What. You loath a character for being important in their own movie?
*facepalm*
Agh, I messed that up. I was rushing by the end of the post. I do loathe IM3 but it was Avengers (which I kinda like) where I felt he was overshadowing everyone.
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They ruined Iron Man even harder in the movie than they ever did the comics.
The Civil War comics ruined Stark for me too. It's been years since I read any of it, but his actions and dialogue were so off from what I loved as a kid that I've never picked up an IM comic since.
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I would say that paralyzed Tony Stark in the comics was a bigger a*%$%#+ than anything they've portrayed in the films yet.
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Excellent CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR SPOILER REVIEW over at Collider.
Very informative, entertaining, and thoughtful. They even specifically discuss Tony Stark's actions in the final act of the film.
Well worth checking out!
I followed Iron Man on and off over the years growing up, but kind of dropped off after Civil War started.
It's very subtle but there's a hint that Tony did his emotional trauma *to himself* by the end of the show.
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Am I the only one picturing a marvel muppet dance party at the end?
Saw the movie Sunday, loved it, can't wait for Avengers Infinity War.
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Hey ninja, it's cool, everyone is allowed to feel their feelings. I can understand your frustration with the characterization of Iron Man.
I will offer this, the point of the Civil War story is to set the stage for a different status quo in the MCU. Yes, Stark makes some bad decisions, but he's also been shown to be so incredibly bad at dealing with trauma.
Nobody acknowledges that Tony Stark suffers from PTSD, and perhaps has been since his parent's deaths. That his anxieties are getting worse with each horrible event he encounters. His obsession with the armour is symbolic. Where Hulk is a raw nerve, Iron Man pushes everyone away because of his fear of being hurt.
By the climax of the movie: ** spoiler omitted **In the end:
** spoiler omitted **
Iron Man was treated much better in this movie than he was in the original comic it was based on. No hero is perfect, but Tony Stark is a bit more imperfect than most that's what makes him one of the greats.
I disagree, at least he didn't try to
Also, he's not supposed to create Ultron or snap under pressure all the time. At this point I'm surprised that the MCU didn't have him hit Pepper too, just to drive home the fact that they've basically turned the character from Tony Stark to Hank Pym.
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Actually, I thought they did a better job of making Tony's decisions much truer to the character in the film. Tony's character is "I'm the smartest guy in the room, so all of my beliefs are right." That's still on display here, but he gets a much worse portrayal in the comics than in the film.
So now we come to the final big revelation of the movie: James Buchanan Barnes is the person responsible for the death of Howard Stark and...um, Mrs. Stark. (Can't recall her name right now. Maybe it's Martha?) Worse, Steve knew. (Somehow. This is my biggest complaint about this final scene - we have no idea how Steve knew that Bucky killed Tony's parents.) Yes, Bucky was not in control of his faculties during those actions. But Tony clearly has unresolved trauma from his parents' deaths, hence that scene at MIT early on in Act 1 of the film. So when Zemo plays the video on that fateful December night, it's not the guy who built Ultron, or flew a nuke into the Chitauri warfleet, or built a metal suit in the Middle East, or even chaired Stark Industries. It's the Tony Stark from December 17, 1991. Young, teenaged, emotionally unbalanced Tony Stark. This man murdered his parents. He doesn't care whether he was in control or not. The revenge is all he wants.
So, yeah, that's not good, but at least the motivation makes sense. Let's look at how the comic portrays Tony. Like everything in the comic, he starts off with a very solid argument - "powered people are incredibly dangerous, so we need to know who is out there for national security." The problem is that Tony immediately goes off the deep end in arranging for this security. Thor is dead? No problem, just clone a Thor and have him as your personal Asgardian zombie. Not sure where to hold the superheroes who refuse to register? No problem, just have your good buddy Reed help design a Supermax prison in the Negative Zone. Due process got you down? No problem, just ignore it. You have to ignore a great deal of character development to have Tony resolve things the way that he does in the comics.
TL;DR: If you think MCU!Tony was worse than comics!Tony, then I think you may need to refresh your memory on how they handled comics!Tony.
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What he said.
Seen the movie. Enjoyed it quite a bit. Still hold Winter Soldier as the decisively best movie of the entire MCU.
Civil war is a close second.
I loved spiderman. His performance and addition was spot on. Not too much so they leave us with wanting more, and not too little so that we don't get miffed. Also, Marisa Tomei is still gorgeous as hell.
Loved Black Panther. He was amazing.
Loved Giant man.
The entire movie is well done and well thought out. Russeau brothers are awesome.
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Actually, I thought they did a better job of making Tony's decisions much truer to the character in the film. Tony's character is "I'm the smartest guy in the room, so all of my beliefs are right." That's still on display here, but he gets a much worse portrayal in the comics than in the film.
** spoiler omitted **
So, yeah, that's not good, but at least the motivation makes sense. Let's look at how the comic portrays...
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Actually, I thought they did a better job of making Tony's decisions much truer to the character in the film. Tony's character is "I'm the smartest guy in the room, so all of my beliefs are right." That's still on display here, but he gets a much worse portrayal in the comics than in the film.
** spoiler omitted **
So, yeah, that's not good, but at least the motivation makes sense. Let's look at how the comic portrays...
Oh and dont forget the entire lets deputise super villans and sick em on heroes as well.
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So, yeah, that's not good, but at least the motivation makes sense. Let's look at how the comic portrays...
Concerning parts of what Misroi mentioned:
Worse, Steve knew. (Somehow. This is my biggest complaint about this final scene - we have no idea how Steve knew that Bucky killed Tony's parents.)
As Havoc mentioned, Steve knew Tony's parents had been killed due to a scene in the Winter Soldier.
Arnim Zola explains how Hydra has manipulated SHIELD for years - including killing Stark's parents to further their own goals.
Depending on how you choose to do interpret it, it could be possible Steve didn't realize it was Bucky. But considering he's shown directly involved in other assassinations, the implication is that Bucky killed his parents - and that was even before Civil War.
I don't fault the movie for not explaining it so much as a lack of a better explanation for why Steve didn't tell Tony besides "I didn't think it was Bucky" argument. They could have had Steve make a cameo or something in another MU movie where he mentions this situation.
And while I can understand some of Ninja's frustration, I don't think anything can be worse than Mark Millar's use of the character to make him "Iron Fascist" and basically create a string of "crisis" series with him at the center of the mess. The movies so far, have at least built up a reasonable amount of explanation for why he reaches this point by comparison.
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And while I can understand some of Ninja's frustration, I don't think anything can be worse than Mark Millar's use of the character to make him "Iron Fascist" and basically create a string of "crisis" series with him at the center of the mess. The movies so far, have at least built up a reasonable amount of explanation for why he reaches this point by comparison.
Oh god this, a thousand times this.
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Also, he's not supposed to create Ultron or snap under pressure all the time. At this point I'm surprised that the MCU didn't have him hit Pepper too, just to drive home the fact that they've basically turned the character from Tony Stark to Hank Pym.
I was going to ignore this because in reading what you've wrote it just seems that you have a huge issue with the movie version of the Marvel Universe which is more than fair.
But Tony Stark does not "snap under pressure all the time".
This breaking point for him has been accumulating for literally NINE YEARS.
Starting from being taken hostage by the Nine Rings in the first movie. being almost mortally wounded and needing the mini arc reactor in his chest to keep him alive. The loss of Ho Yinsen, the betrayal by Obidiah Stane. Almost being poisoned by the arc reactor in his chest the thing that's keeping him alive.
Meeting the man (Steve Rogers) that his father IDOLIZED and having not worked through his issues with his parents loss, particularly his father, has a little bit of contempt for Steve. The loss of Coulson. Then the donnybrook in NYC. But again that's not what gave him PTSD, it was driving that nuke through the wormhole and seeing what was on the other side on it's way to Earth.
Keep in mind that he was THE ONLY one of the Avengers to see this. And for all his bluster and intelligence?
Tony Stark is just a MAN.
Until that? SuperSoldier? No Problem.
Rampaging beast? Okay. Still not too bad. It was made through science. Something that he understands.
Asgardian Alien? Okay. Still feels it could be explained by tech. Magic is just another technology.
But the overwhelming Alien force that he saw in that wormhole when he thought that he was about to DIE? Yeah. it effected him. Even still here I don't see where he's snapped.
At the beginning of IM3 he's CLEARLY suffering from PTSD but he hasn't snapped. He's dealing with it by overcompensating. By working relentlessly. Tirelessly. By the end of that movie he's resolved some of his issues or at least has a plan to.
By Age of Ultron, he's trying to implement a solution to help protect the earth from what HE KNOWS is coming. Granted Scarlet Witch's mind mix makes it a little worse but still. Does it impair his judgement in what he does. Absolutely.
But snap. At no point has he snapped.
And Tony wasn't just TOLD.
HE SAW.
HE SAW Bucky choke the life out of his mother.
So yeah, THEN he snapped.
But snap all the time? I think you're watching different movies than I am. And also have very different expectations of a very human (probably the most human character) in the MCU.
Actually, I thought they did a better job of making Tony's decisions much truer to the character in the film. Tony's character is "I'm the smartest guy in the room, so all of my beliefs are right." That's still on display here, but he gets a much worse portrayal in the comics than in the film.
** spoiler omitted **
So, yeah, that's not good, but at least the motivation makes sense. Let's look at how the comic portrays...
It's Maria Stark...
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The Civil War comics ruined Stark for me too. It's been years since I read any of it, but his actions and dialogue were so off from what I loved as a kid that I've never picked up an IM comic since.They ruined Iron Man even harder in the movie than they ever did the comics.
That's unfortunate because Matt Fraction and Salvador Larroca's run on Iron Man was one of the best in a very long time and it hasn't been as good since they left the title years ago.
I agree though, Millar's Iron Man in Civil War was NOT Tony Stark. He was a fascist dickbag in a Tony Stark suit.
I disagree, at least he didn't try to ** spoiler omitted ** in the comic.
Maybe not personally, but he was holding the Thor clone's leash when it murdered Goliath.
I don't really check in on Iron Man much, but last time I did check, he had basically become a drug pusher in San Fransisco, and Daredevil was about to confront him about it.
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Also, he's not supposed to create Ultron or snap under pressure all the time. At this point I'm surprised that the MCU didn't have him hit Pepper too, just to drive home the fact that they've basically turned the character from Tony Stark to Hank Pym.I was going to ignore this because in reading what you've wrote it just seems that you have a huge issue with the movie version of the Marvel Universe which is more than fair.
But Tony Stark does not "snap under pressure all the time".
This breaking point for him has been accumulating for literally NINE YEARS.
Starting from being taken hostage by the Nine Rings in the first movie. being almost mortally wounded and needing the mini arc reactor in his chest to keep him alive. The loss of Ho Yinsen, the betrayal by Obidiah Stane. Almost being poisoned by the arc reactor in his chest the thing that's keeping him alive.
Meeting the man (Steve Rogers) that his father IDOLIZED and having not worked through his issues with his parents loss, particularly his father, has a little bit of contempt for Steve. The loss of Coulson. Then the donnybrook in NYC. But again that's not what gave him PTSD, it was driving that nuke through the wormhole and seeing what was on the other side on it's way to Earth.
Keep in mind that he was THE ONLY one of the Avengers to see this. And for all his bluster and intelligence?
Tony Stark is just a MAN.
Until that? SuperSoldier? No Problem.
Rampaging beast? Okay. Still not too bad. It was made through science. Something that he understands.
Asgardian Alien? Okay. Still feels it could be explained by tech. Magic is just another technology.But the overwhelming Alien force that he saw in that wormhole when he thought that he was about to DIE? Yeah. it effected him. Even still here I don't see where he's snapped.
At the beginning of IM3 he's CLEARLY suffering from PTSD but he hasn't snapped. He's dealing with it by overcompensating. By working relentlessly. Tirelessly....
Beautifully said. Beautifully.
Actually, I thought they did a better job of making Tony's decisions much truer to the character in the film. Tony's character is "I'm the smartest guy in the room, so all of my beliefs are right." That's still on display here, but he gets a much worse portrayal in the comics than in the film.
** spoiler omitted **
So, yeah, that's not good, but at least the motivation makes sense.
Tony has a motivation in the comics that makes some sense, he's the former secretary of State (or War) and he knows exactly what the government response will be in the superhero situation isn't brought under control. He's desperate to prevent an extreme and brutal response that will result in many deaths, and makes some bad decisions along the way, things that really damaged the character for a long time, but at least he didn't cross that line.
Also, it's funny that you describe Tony's position as, "I'm the smartest guy in the room, so all of my beliefs are right." Because it's kind of the exact opposite.
Steve's position is literally stated to be, "When you believe you're right never compromise, never listen to anyone who tries to tell you you're wrong, you dig in and refuse to move!" It's directly stated by Steve in the comics and then here in the movie by Sharron. Meanwhile Tony's position is, "These people who aren't me and are scared might actually have a point, maybe we should listen to them."
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Actually, I thought they did a better job of making Tony's decisions much truer to the character in the film. Tony's character is "I'm the smartest guy in the room, so all of my beliefs are right." That's still on display here, but he gets a much worse portrayal in the comics than in the film.
** spoiler omitted **
So, yeah, that's not good, but at least the motivation makes sense.
** spoiler omitted **
Tony has a motivation in the comics that makes some sense, he's the former secretary of State (or War) and he knows exactly what the government response will be in the superhero situation isn't brought under control. He's desperate to prevent an extreme and brutal response that will result in many deaths, and makes some bad decisions along the way, things that really damaged the character for a long time, but at least he didn't cross that line.
Also, it's funny that you describe Tony's position as, "I'm the smartest guy in the room, so all of my beliefs are right." Because it's kind of the exact opposite.
Steve's position is literally stated to be, "When you believe you're right never compromise, never listen to anyone who tries to tell you you're wrong, you dig in and refuse to move!" It's directly stated by Steve in the comics and then here in the movie by Sharron. Meanwhile Tony's position is, "These people who aren't me and are scared might actually have a point, maybe we should listen to them."
If you just read the main CIVIL WAR series, Tony's motivation absolutely does not jibe with the Tony that we all know. There is NO reason for him to act the way that he does and in such a callous and borderline psychotic manner. He literally turns on his longtime friends and allies on the drop of a DIME. He's responsible for the death of Bill Foster and for unleashing homicidal villains on his former allies. Tony Stark as depicted by Mark Millar in CIVIL WAR was LOATHSOME and VILE.
Tony's motivation was only explained in detail in Christos Gage' CIVIL WAR one shot :CASUALTIES OF WAR. When Cap and Tony met to try and talk things out. Cap explained where he was coming from where his main concern was the inexorable tip toward fascism and the regulation of PEOPLE. Where Tony for the first and only time gets his desperation across as he reveals to Cap that the government is ready to put Project: WIdeawake into FULL EFFECT not only for mutants this time but for EVERYONE. It's only when Tony drops that shocker that I as a reader was like "OH. SH*T" that explains his desperation.
Again I'm not sure if we saw the same movie. The quote from the movie:
Sharon: I asked her one time how she managed to master diplomacy and espionage in a time when no one wanted to see a woman succeed a either.
She said COMPROMISE where you CAN.
When you can't? DON'T.
Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right.
Even if the whole world is telling you to move.
It is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye and say:
"NO. YOU MOVE."
After stopping Panther from killing Bucky the first time when they get back to the German base when he's talking to Tony, Cap is about to COMPROMISE and sign up when Tony tells him that he has Wanda under house arrest. And that's the sticking point for Cap. It's ALWAYS been. Going back to Winter Soldier. HE had issues with Fury's methods. HE fought in WWII and saw fascism close up in a way that none of the other Avengers have. So your claim of Cap's position being inflexible? Is wrong.
Tony's attitude about being the smartest guy in the room so all of my belief are right? Just recently changed with THIS movie.
Aside from that? that attitude has proved dangerous and has COST HIM.
It's that attitude that prompts him to openly challenge the Mandarin and give him his HOME ADDRESS which nearly gets him and Pepper KILLED.
It's what prompted him to tinker with the gem in Loki's spear which in turn gave birth to the Ultron AI. Which in turn caused the destruction of Serkovia.
It's only when all of the guilt finally catches up with him does he have a change of tune.
The characters aren't as simple as you make them to be here. The situation under which these characters are forced to operate in these movies are considerably more complex.
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** spoiler omitted **So, yeah, that's not good, but at least the motivation makes sense.
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I also find your assessment of Tony's actions to be the opposite of what the film was trying to get across. It's supposed to be emotional and complex. It's not supposed to be a easy answer FOR ANY OF THEM.
Tony saw his parents murdered right in front of him. He never processed their deaths when he thought it was accidental. But now he's seen them killed and the guy that did it is right in front of him and on top of that his friend (Cap) knew the entire time? That coupled with everything that's been going on with Tony over the past 3 or 4 movies? He reached his breaking point and tried to kill this man who killed his parents. We can say till we're blue in the face what we'd do or what Tony should have done in that situation. But we weren't in that situation. Tony was.
Part of T'challa's arc is the only one that ends in clarity and level headedness. He sees the cycle of revenge and death that Zemo started, can relate but chooses a different path. But he's more than just a warrior, he embraces the legacy of his father and becomes something greater. In that moment he becomes KING. A JUST Ruler.
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** spoiler omitted **So, yeah, that's not good, but at least the motivation makes sense.
** spoiler omitted **
."
I also find your assessment of Tony's actions to be the opposite of what the film was trying to get across. It's supposed to be emotional and complex. It's not supposed to be a easy answer FOR ANY OF THEM.
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Even more important, after the fighting is done...
Meanwhile, Tony's sitting there -- and interestingly enough, it didn't look like he had a drink on his desk when he opened the package for 'Tony Stank'.
And he did exactly what he promised he would do earlier in the movie.
I also find your assessment of Tony's actions to be the opposite of what the film was trying to get across. It's supposed to be emotional and complex. It's not supposed to be a easy answer FOR ANY OF THEM.** spoiler omitted **
Well, first, I think that you're wrong about Bucky not being innocent of his actions as Winter Solider.
As to Tony, here's the thing, I just don't care if people think that it's understandable that a person who saw what he saw would "snap" and do what he did in that moment. It still ruined the movie and the character for me regardless.
First, from a meta perspective, it felt like cheap manipulation on the part of the film makers in order to throw the whole ideological difference the movie was built around out of the window and force a big final fight between the characters. (The villain's entire plan to get them all there to that point is also ridiculously convoluted and could and probably should have fallen apart multiple times along the way).
Second, end of the day they took the best version of my favorite comic character since I was a little kid and turned him into a
Maybe that's not fair of me, but I can only speak as to why the movie didn't work for me. Like I said, I went in this with high hopes and wish that I'd come out loving it as it seems that most people did instead of feeling like I'd been repeatedly punched in the gut for the last 40 minutes.
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Well, it wasn't Avengers 3 or Iron Man: Civil War. It was a Captain America movie by marketing. Which means Tony had to be the goat.
At least he didn't ruthlessly clone one of his oldest and dearest friends into a mind-shorn murder zombie, give Norman Osborne, Venom, Crossbones, and so on a license to hunt down his former comrades in arms, or send a bunch of people he has nothing against into the Negative Zone.
*shrug*