Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hello i need some advice conerning 2 questions.
Its possible that it was asked before but i didnt found it and i need
an answer to this before the next session i have to master.
First if one uses an Robe of the Archamge with another alignmeent
then the user has can he / she use usse Magical device to use it
without getting the 2 level penalty?
Is it possible to simulate the alignment to use the robe without penalty?
Second question:
If one uses water walk can the user get dragged under water while the spell is running?
Is there any rules for that?
Best regards
Khel
Use Magic Device can allow you to emulate an alignment for purposes of using a magic item.
While under the effect of water walking you can still be pulled beneath the surface. For instance, if you pass over a giant octopus and he strikes, then grabs hold, he will drag you under the surface. If you aren't otherwise restrained, you will rise to the surface at 60 feet per round. Similarly, you can dive or fall into the water and you will pass beneath it. You will not slam into it like concrete.
As long as you are basically 'walking' on the water (got your feet beneath you), which includes standing in place, running, charging, jumping horizontally, you will stay about an inch or so above it. I rule in my games that falling prone or getting knocked down will put you into the water (or liquid) like any other character, though of course, you will float as per the spell and can just 'stand up' to return to 'walking' on the water.
Important things to remember:
"If a white robe is donned by an evil character, she immediately gains three permanent negative levels. The same is true with respect to a black robe donned by a good character. An evil or good character who puts on a gray robe, or a neutral character who dons either a white or black robe, gains two permanent negative levels. These negative levels remain as long as the garment is worn and cannot be overcome in any way (including through restoration spells). Negative levels are immediately removed if the robe is removed from the wearer."
Nope, UMD won't help. The Robe has to be worn to be used. You must don the robe before you have a chance to use it, therefore before you have a chance to try UMD. Additionally, the entry specifically states they cannot be "overcome" in any way other than removing the robe.
I'm pretty sure you can attempt to emulate the proper alignment (assuming you know what that is) as you don the item. You can also do so afterwards, but of course, you will have penalties to your attempt based on the negative levels. Nothing stops you from taking it off and trying again, though if you roll a 1 you cannot try again for 24 hours.
If you succeed, the robe will treat you as that alignment for up to an hour or until you take it off, so after an hour, you (or your DM) will make another check and if that fails, you suddenly take the appropriate penalties.
I am also positive that if you stop being evil... or good depending on the robe, the penalties also disappear. Such as a neutral person in a white robe suddenly becoming good. This isn't like trying to overcome the negative levels, just that you stop being penalized by the item, so there is no negative levels to remove or overcome.
You could never do it afterwards. The robe is use activated, which means it becomes active as soon as it is put on. The negative levels are gained "immediately." I believe it is made even more clear by the second bolded sentence above that a mere skill check shouldn't avoid what can't be removed by a Wish spell.
Okay... if you want to require your players to remove the robe before trying again, in your game, fine. But saying you can't use the Use Magic Device skill to emulate the alignment needed to use a magic item is just not going to make any sense.
Emulate an Alignment: wrote: Some magic items have positive or negative effects based on the user's alignment. Use Magic Device lets you use these items as if you were of an alignment of your choice. You can emulate only one alignment at a time. 'Donned' doesn't just mean putting it on, it also means 'while it's on' or 'dressed in'. You can't just magic jar into the body of a good wizard wearing a white robe and not suffer the penalty for being evil. You will get 3 negative levels. When you pop out of that body, you lose those 3 negative levels. You don't keep them on your soul because you didn't 'remove the robe from the wearer'. Nor do they stay on the body. The guy whose soul comes back in doesn't have to remove the robe to get rid of the 3 negative levels.
It's really pretty clear that Use Magic Device allows you to emulate an alignment and 'use' an item as though you were that alignment. If you're evil, and put on a good robe... that robe still works. It still gives you every benefit, but it also gives you 3 negative levels. You can walk around all day and all night like that; getting +5 AC, SR 18, etc. (the negative level penalties might mitigate some of the bonuses) and then, if you feel like not suffering that effect, you can emulate having a good alignment and for an hour that robe treats you as the emulated alignment, end of story.
You are not interpreting the rules on the robe and its negative levels correctly. They apply when worn by a person with the wrong alignment. They do NOT apply while being worn by the appropriate alignment. Since they DON'T APPLY while you are the appropriate alignment, they aren't there, they aren't 'being overcome'.
Quote: Nope, UMD won't help. The Robe has to be worn to be used. You must don the robe before you have a chance to use it, therefore before you have a chance to try UMD. Additionally, the entry specifically states they cannot be "overcome" in any way other than removing the robe. Saldiven wrote: You could never do it afterwards. The robe is use activated, which means it becomes active as soon as it is put on. The negative levels are gained "immediately." I believe it is made even more clear by the second bolded sentence above that a mere skill check shouldn't avoid what can't be removed by a Wish spell. You don't put the item on then attempt to activate it. It all happens at the same time.
Quote: Action: None. The Use Magic Device check is made as part of the action (if any) required to activate the magic item. The Use Magic Device check doesn't let you overcome the negative level penalty. The negative level penalty would never be applied with a successful check.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Thanks so far.
My problem is that i have some people who take the rules very seriously so i have to prove it by the rules.
So if i understand it right UMD will not help overcome the negative levels by the robe of the archmage because the mage in question have to done it before he can make the check and therefore its to late?
Right?
So second one water walking can get drawn under water.
Are there any rules for that?
I read the under water combat section but that doesn't cover it.
Any advice?
I need to know how to handle it.
All i found you have to make a grapple check to get the target.
What i dont know is how much can the target get drawn under in one round and how is that handled?
What strength is necessary to overcome the spell as long as the grapple holds?
Regards
Khel.
Quote: So if i understand it right UMD will not help overcome the negative levels by the robe of the archmage because the mage in question have to done it before he can make the check and therefore its to late? The Use Magic Device check happens at the exact same time as he puts on he robe. That is how UMD works - it is part of activating the item (and in this case, the item is activated by putting it on).
If the mage did not attempt a UMD check as he put on the robe, then he can not make one later as the item is already activated, and the check happens when you activate the item. However, he could remove the robe and put it on again, making the check as he does so.
Quote: So second one water walking can get drawn under water.
Are there any rules for that?
I read the under water combat section but that doesn't cover it.
Any advice?
I need to know how to handle it.
All i found you have to make a grapple check to get the target.
What i dont know is how much can the target get drawn under in one round and how is that handled?
What strength is necessary to overcome the spell as long as the grapple holds?
The grapple rules cover moving the target (in this case, dragging them under water). With a successful grapple check, you can:
Quote: Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.
This is exactly the kind if item emulate alignment with Use Magic Device is for, and should work just fine.
The UMD roll is not a separate action, it's made as you activate (in this case put on) the item, then once every hour as the item is constantly functioning. Unless you fail the check you can avoid the negative levels with UMD just fine.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
