I've seen a lot of threads on this topic but not exactly the scenario that I as the DM will be putting my characters through.
In this particular adventure, they are being tormented by a couple of moon dogs. They sneak around invisible killing guards and the moment they hear anyone coming to check on them they simply stealth (the place they have taken over is not well lit in all places) and use telepathy (no speaking) to know what they are thinking, where they are going.
Well, in response to the last murder, they gathered 72 of their assorted workers, and themselves and went into one giant room. The moon dogs made an appearance but didn't have to go invisible because the doors to the room are closed but the walls are not terribly thick and the doors are just wood.
They activate an 80ft radius howl, and none of the workers passed, and went running to the farthest back part of the room. And now the group is waiting at the door for something to come through, a knowledge check (planes) did reveal that they are dealing with moon dogs.
What I plan on doing next is, both will use Shades to cast summon monster 8, (choosing to do 1d4+1 invisible stalkers) and leave the area but not before commanding their troops to go in through the door and start attacking.
Now, this is only going to last for 9 rounds (1rd a level = 9hd = 9 rounds), but that is enough time for the moon dogs to leave undetected, and the party will have to engage these stalkers (and of course assume these are what were causing the problem after all)
Do you award XP do these summons? Would you?
Well it is an encounter, but I see it as an encounter with the moon dogs since they cast the spell. I would award them XP for those, but not for the summons even though the moon dogs left.
If I were the players I would likely leave if they have no way to deal with that many invisible enemies. I am assuming someone can cast see invis or glitterdust so they can figure out what is going on.
Well it is an encounter, but I see it as an encounter with the moon dogs since they cast the spell. I would award them XP for those, but not for the summons even though the moon dogs left.
If I were the players I would likely leave if they have no way to deal with that many invisible enemies. I am assuming someone can cast see invis or glitterdust so they can figure out what is going on.
Oh I have no idea what they plan on doing to deal with them. I'm just starting off light, each day these agents of good, (my players are evil) just want to ruin their day.
As a very general rule I would award separate xp for this encounter. Unless the summon effect is used during an encounter with the summoner - or in such a way as they encounter the summoner with the spell/SLA depleted - it is essentially an independent encounter.
Oh I have no idea what they plan on doing to deal with them. I'm just starting off light, each day these agents of good, (my players are evil) just want to ruin their day.Well it is an encounter, but I see it as an encounter with the moon dogs since they cast the spell. I would award them XP for those, but not for the summons even though the moon dogs left.
If I were the players I would likely leave if they have no way to deal with that many invisible enemies. I am assuming someone can cast see invis or glitterdust so they can figure out what is going on.
I know the AP. That part annoyed a lot of players. :)
I see it as an encounter against the moondogs. Just because the moondogs only cast one spell and ran away that is not much different than had they thrown one fireball(not saying they actually have this spell) or any other spell at the party and ran away.
Understood thank you!
|
In this particular adventure, they are being tormented by a couple of moon dogs.
...
What I plan on doing next is, both will use Shades to cast summon monster 8, (choosing to do 1d4+1 invisible stalkers) and leave the area but not before commanding their troops to go in through the door and start attacking.
...
Do you award XP do these summons? Would you?
I see a few problem with that idea:
1) Shades? AFAIK the moon dogs have greater shadow conjuration with a CL of 12 (and so a duration of 12 rounds). They are a non standard version?
2) Damage dealt: Melee 2 slams +12 (2d6+4). Halved against an inanimate object and the door has at least hardness 5. They will take forever to break it.
Especially as I don't see a item "failing" its save against illusions, so they deal only 80% damage.
3) The encounter are the moon dogs, not what they summon. They haven't dealt with them, at most they have gathered some useful information. I would award some XP for that, but not much.
Maybe as much as the equivalent of a encounter with 2 CR 7 creatures.
Depending on the building structure and flooring I would go for some earth elemental (they can use Earth Glide through the floor if it is made of earth or stone blocks, same though the walls if they are made of stone) or some creature strong enough to break in.
I see it as an encounter against the moondogs. Just because the moondogs only cast one spell and ran away that is not much different than had they thrown one fireball(not saying they actually have this spell) or any other spell at the party and ran away.
I agree this counts as an encounter with the Moondogs (and does not reward xp as though it was its own encounter), but for our group, the litmus test as to whether or not you earn XP is whether or not you defeat the encounter (through combat or diplomacy/intimidation in the case of creatures, or overcoming, avoiding, or activating a trap or hazard.) The Moondogs haven't been defeated, so I would say no XP.
If I was feeling particularly generous, I might award some XP, but it would come out of the Moondog's XP pool.
I see it as an encounter against the moondogs. Just because the moondogs only cast one spell and ran away that is not much different than had they thrown one fireball(not saying they actually have this spell) or any other spell at the party and ran away.I agree this counts as an encounter with the Moondogs (and does not reward xp as though it was its own encounter), but for our group, the litmus test as to whether or not you earn XP is whether or not you defeat the encounter (through combat or diplomacy/intimidation in the case of creatures, or overcoming, avoiding, or activating a trap or hazard.) The Moondogs haven't been defeated, so I would say no XP.
If I was feeling particularly generous, I might award some XP, but it would come out of the Moondog's XP pool.
You do not have to defeat the creature. You just have to overcome the encounter. The two are often the same, but not always. That is why you can have someone purposely set off a trap and still get XP for it, even though the trap was not disabled.