Cone spell around a corner?

[Gamemonger]

I'm wondering if a cone spell can be used around a corner.

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Say you have a setup like this. (X = solid, O = open, W = wizard, T = target).

OXXX
WXXX
OOTO

The wizard wants to shoot a cone spell that hits the target without losing partial cover. We know that the wizard can shoot a ray spell, similarly to how an archer can shoot an arrow. However, I'm not sure about a cone, given that the corner of the square the Wizard shoots the cone out of is the very corner being shot around.

[Gauss]

OXXX
WXXX
OCTC
OCCO
OCOO

According to the cone template on page 215 of the CRB he can hit the target. I have placed a 15' cone above (I put it above just so it would be unbroken formatting) and expanded the open space. Your target is inside the cones area.

- Gauss

[Ravingdork]

Bursts can't go around corners. Spreads can. Something to keep in mind also.

Judging from your diagram, I think he could hit the guy (whether it's a burst or a spread).

[Gauss]

I agree, bursts cannot go around corners which means that it cannot fill a space and then turn around a corner (such as a cloud would). This is a case where the starting point IS the corner which is not a problem.

Example of Burst vs spread (20' radius):
Burst (target is the intersection between the Ts):

The bolded squares are the main difference.

OOBBOO
XXBBXX
XXTTXX
XXTTXX
XXBBXX
OOBBOO

Spread (target is the intersection between the Ts):

OSSSSO
XXSSXX
XXTTXX
XXTTXX
XXSSXX
OSSSSO

- Gauss

[Gamemonger]

Thanks guys.

This makes since in RAW, there's nothing that contradicts the ability to do this cone-shaped burst around at a corner like that, so it's allowed.

This actually raises another point for me.

Can a line spell be used in the same way? I've previously thought yes, since it seemed like an area effect version of a ray in my mind. But given the templates for lines (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/area-effect-diagrams), it seems like a line spell cannot be shot around a corner by RAW. What do you think?

[Gauss]

You are correct, a line spell cannot be shot down the hall from the position the wizard is in. The wizard would have to step out from behind the corner to hit that particular target.

- Gauss

[Maezer]

A line starts in a corner of the casters space and proceeds to a corner of a square a given distance away. Any square in which the line passes through is effected. Travelling through a corner or along the border of square is not consider through the square.

The line diagrams only show lines originating from the upper left corner of the casters square, but that doesn't mean you can't choose to start the line at the upper right or lower left corners.

[Gauss]

I have to disagree with you Maezer, the key phrase in the case of line is: 'shoots away from you'.

W is the wizard, L is a line. If the starting point is bottom right intersection relative to the Wizard then it moves away from W in a straight line.

There is a bit of variability of course (as per the diagram). However, I cannot see any route that would allow him to shoot down the corridor and still be 'shooting away from you' for the first two squares.

XWXXX
OOLTO
OOOLO
OOOOL

What you would have us accept is:

XWXXXXXX
OOLTOOOO
OOOOLLOO
OOOOOOLL

Which is not a straight line from the wizard.

- Gauss

Edit: BTW, I wouldnt mind a wizard shooting a line down a hall from around a corner. I see it as creative combat. I just see that the RAW specifies 'shoots away from you' and that direction is not really away from you.

[Skylancer4]

What about:

XWXXXXXX
OOLTLLLLL
OOOOOOO
OOOOOOO

You get to specify which corner the spell originates when the spell goes off and it still is a line "shooting away from you."

[Gauss]

According to how the diagrams are laid out in the CRB if you start it in the corner I would say it hits the wall in front of you.

Perhaps this is a corner case not planned for by the CRB diagrams. It would be interesting to see what a Dev had to say about this.

- Gauss

[Maezer]

Gauss wrote:

What you would have us accept is:

XWXXXXXX
OOLTOOOO
OOOOLLOO
OOOOOOLL

Which is not a straight line from the wizard.

- Gauss

It is a perfectly straight line. Assuming the origin is 0,0 the equation y = -.5x decribes your example.

It also travels away from the wizard. If we number the effected squares in your diagram from left to right. 6 is farther from the wizard than 5, which is farther than 4, etc.

XWXXXXXX
OO12OOOO
OOOO34OO
OOOOOO56

Now your example is invalid if you were attempting to diagram a 30' line as the target intersection point (6,-3) is not 30' away from point (0,0). It would be a valid example of a 35' line however.