Looking at the inquisitor class, and I narrow it down to two archetypes that I think are pretty interesting/cool concepts and that I'd consider playing, only to find that both of them can't be played in PFS.
Although I'm not really annoyed by this, it did make me curious as to why PFS ban certain things like this.
For reference the archetypes in particular were monster tactician and reaper of secrets.
For reaper of secrets I suppose it could be that worshipping an evil diety is against the general theme of good aligned heroics that pfs generally conforms to, so i get that, but i'm not sure what the logic behind banning an inquisitor that focuses on summoning creatures. What do you guys think? Are there any banned materials in pfs that you would like to see unbanned or anything you just wonder "why did they ban that?"?
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The reaper of secrets is probably banned because the fluff specifically calls it an assassin. Regular inquisitors of Norgorber are perfectly legal, and I have one myself.
The monster tactician is probably banned because the expanded summon list that it uses isn't allowed. Also, I see a power issue, in that it replaces Judgment with powerful summoning options, which seems like a pretty hefty upgrade.
As a would-be monster tactician player myself, my guess was either power-level concerns or concerns about the time spent on minion management.
Unfortunately, I'll have to save that character for a home game. ^_^
Agreed, generally the only ban in home games i play is anything inherently broken, or synthesist summoner.
I like to think if I were making a rpg rule set I wouldnt include options that cant be used in organised play, unless of course I accidentally caused a game breaking combo, in which case I'd wonder how it slipped through testing!
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In general, PFS has several reasons to ban stuff.
1) Overpowered/too good.
2) Does not fit the fluff (evil stuff, too advanced technology for Golarion).
3) Complicated things/slows down the game (crafting, multiple animals)
4) Saved for chronicle boons (if something fits the fluff of a upcoming scenario/module, it might appear on the chronicle and be legal to those who play that thing. Like some of the more unique AP loot appears on the chronicle of that sanctioned part.)
5) Saved for convention boons to keep things rare (mostly applies to races. This is again mostly a fluff thing. Races like elemental-blooded are not that common on Golarion, but they do exist, thus the limited number of them available to players).
6) Something other I forgot.
In general, Paizo does not let us know which reason it was (maybe to save the suprise of 4) and also to not end in a endless swamp of counterarguments.
Monster Tactician is a better summoner than the Summoner. And PFS has always hated the Summoner.
Monster Tactician is a better summoner than the Summoner. And PFS has always hated the Summoner.
It is better with the Summon Monster SLA, than a Summoner yes (until 19th level where Summoner wins via access to Gate), but overall the Summoner is the much better Summoner. The Inquisitor's spell list while good is no Summoner Spell list. But yes, a Monster Tactician is the next best thing to a Master Summoner and that is banned in PFS.
It's about control. Within the confines of your own home it is acceptable to be evil, to read minds, to fly at level 1, or make several broken combinations that the developers don't have the time/resources to respond to.
They have largely restricted access to A) be more public friendly (alignment/character balance), B) control the number of connectors (probability of combinations between options) to allow for easier predictability for writers of material and limit resources/time spent towards rules fixing, and C) clean things up for a smooth user experience (time constraints)
Question: Are there online PBP options for PFS, or a store locator for playing? (I have not been involved with PFS for years)
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Question: Are there online PBP options for PFS, or a store locator for playing? (I have not been involved with PFS for years)
There are a lot of PFS games going on by PbP on the Paizo forums right now. I believe there's a Venture-Officer specifically for online gaming, and they've set up several PbP game days.
EDIT: I believe you can get to either local or online game info from this page.
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It's about control. Within the confines of your own home it is acceptable to be evil, to read minds, to fly at level 1, or make several broken combinations that the developers don't have the time/resources to respond to.
They have largely restricted access to A) be more public friendly (alignment/character balance), B) control the number of connectors (probability of combinations between options) to allow for easier predictability for writers of material and limit resources/time spent towards rules fixing, and C) clean things up for a smooth user experience (time constraints)
Question: Are there online PBP options for PFS, or a store locator for playing? (I have not been involved with PFS for years)
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It's about control. Within the confines of your own home it is acceptable to be evil, to read minds, to fly at level 1, or make several broken combinations that the developers don't have the time/resources to respond to.
They have largely restricted access to A) be more public friendly (alignment/character balance), B) control the number of connectors (probability of combinations between options) to allow for easier predictability for writers of material and limit resources/time spent towards rules fixing, and C) clean things up for a smooth user experience (time constraints)
Question: Are there online PBP options for PFS, or a store locator for playing? (I have not been involved with PFS for years)
Hi! There are absolutely online options for playing PFS! Rigby posted a link to the Flaxseed Lodge, a thread on the Paizo forums which serves as kind of a hub for PFS PbP on the Paizo forums.
However, there's another type of online PFS if you're interested. The Pathfinder Society Online Collective serves as a kind of hub for games played by Virtual Table Top. In this the game is played in real time with everyone logging into a virtual table top like Roll20.
No matter which format (PbP, VTT, or RL Games), we hope to see you on future tables!
Thank you everyone for the information, it was very helpful.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I would not worry overly much about banned content, if a particular achetype or class is very important to you, you can always try to make a good fatih argument (in a separate thread) for the inclusion in PFS.
When making a good faith argument, it helps to see the issue from various points of view, and compare the performance of the item in question with other currently legal options.
If something is the "best" option in 99% of cases, it might be too good.
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For reaper of secrets I suppose it could be that worshipping an evil diety is against the general theme of good aligned heroics that pfs generally conforms to, so i get that, but i'm not sure what the logic behind banning an inquisitor that focuses on summoning creatures. What do you guys think? Are there any banned materials in pfs that you would like to see unbanned or anything you just wonder "why did they ban that?"?
I've got a few that strike me with the "why did they ban that?" feeling. Occasionally I get "why did they allow that?" feeling, too. The suggestion to "create a petition" to allow a specific thing, is a good suggestion.
Regarding evil, I personally think that the alignments are horribly mishandled within the pathfinder setting. The CRB defines evil along the lines of Sadism, rather than anything I would consider actually evil. That said, I'm playing within their setting, so my point isn't to dispute their definition, but to point out to you that their concept for an evil deity is likely different from what you think an evil deity should be.
Regarding the PFS ban on evil, as much as I'd love to play an evil PC, I think the bottom line issue is that some people would take it too far and it would make PFS an unpleasant environment for some to role play in.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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With the Monster Tactician, I'm almost certain it's because of power level concerns. Standard action summoning with minute duration is very powerful, but the shenanigans if you can also grant teamwork feats become quite extreme. Especially since you can summon them into the right locations to satisfy positional requirements of those feats.
PFS has been pretty tight-screwed with regards to "extra bodies"; look at the restrictive rules for familiars using magic items, limits on what CR beasts you can buy and so forth. This archetype was at or probably over the limit.
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As for the Reaper, it could be the assassin flavour. And the "suppress information" theme, that really doesn't jive well with "explore, report, cooperate".
I think there was also some concern about the wording of its abilities;
Mind-Game Tactics (Su): At 3rd level, a reaper of secrets can read other creatures so well she can use their reactions to gain a tactical advantage. She treats any creature targeted by her soul-piercing gaze as if it were her ally and possessed the same teamwork feats as she does for the purposes of positioning and threatening when she determines whether she receives a benefit from her teamwork feats. She cannot use this ability to benefit from any teamwork feats that require particular actions from allies, such as Swap PlacesAPG.
For example, a reaper of secrets with the Precise StrikeAPG feat gains the bonus from that feat if she and the target of her soul-piercing gaze occupy flanking positions relative to the creature she attacks.
The weird thing is that this bonus only applies to teamwork feats, not positioning in general. So you'd be getting extra damage for "flanking", but not a bonus to hit for flanking. I think the language in this ability is just a bit "off" and confusing, which may be another reason not to allow it in.
Is it Axe Body Spray.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Because we really don't need that kind of item in Organized Play. It is similar to a real-life substance that is used in rather terrible ways.
Considering how both owning slaves and worshipping various gods of torture are both legal and accepted for player characters, I fail to see how a love potion, of all things, is such a big deal.
As it was uncontroversially legal for more than five years and banned three weeks ago, this leads me to think there must have been some sort of incident. I'm genuinely curious what happened.
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I still don't understand why the vivisectionist is banned. I just don't see it as evil. I dissect things at work all the time. It's all about discovery. The only thing I can figure out is that it was banned before the rogue went unchained. Prior to that, it was essentially a better rogue with extracts.
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I doubt that you engage in vivisection, which is the dissection of things that are still alive at the time you start cutting them up.
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Im kind lost on the Gunmaster Vigilante archetype. Maybe it doesn't jump out at me. But i don't see why this archetype was banned. The save or die ability is lvl 20 talent. The Quick Clear is available 1st lvl but usable once per day. For most scenarios that's pretty much the entire scenario.
But I can see that this archetype could blend with stalker vigilante for ranged hidden strike. But with only 1 free get out of jail card for the misfire I don't immediately see what was over powered. Can't use martial weapons, or Medium armor. So the character has to be light on their toes and quick. Pretty much the definition of glass cannon.
Maybe i am not looking at this from the right angle.
It's called "surgery" now....I doubt that you engage in vivisection, which is the dissection of things that are still alive at the time you start cutting them up.
Without anesthesia? With no intention that the subject/victim survive the experience?
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It's called "surgery" now....I doubt that you engage in vivisection, which is the dissection of things that are still alive at the time you start cutting them up.
Without anesthesia? With no intention that the subject/victim survive the experience?
Kermit Gosnell. But that doesn't really support the not being evil concept.
