Shooting into situations with darkness and light

[Gwiber]

I know there are a lot of rules concerning how light works for the person(s) IN the light, and how they deal with seeing things away from them.

But are there any rules to concern myself with when it comes to someone sitting in the dark, and shooting people in light sources?

In this case there is a situation that involves Deurgar sitting in a dark area trying to pick off the party of players who will be carrying a light source.

Would there be any rules for or against the Deurgar I should be applying?

[Hugo Rune]

Depends on whether the darkness is magical or not.

Assuming it is, there is an FAQ that states it is opaque and cannot be seen through unless you have darkvision. So unless you have darkvision and the Duergar is within range, he will effectively be invisible. Similarly, if the magical darkness area extends beyond the Duergar's darkvision, his sight will also be blocked and he will not be able to see the light.

If the darkness is natural then the duergar will be able to see everything in the illuminated area unless concealed or covered.

Note: I houserule that magical darkness suppresses light but is not opaque, so someone in darkness could cast a silhouette for instance.

[CampinCarl9127]

Well deurgar have darkvision, so they can see regardless.

Now if a party member tries to shoot back at the deurgar and they do not have darkvision (or are too far away for their darkvision to pierce it), then they suffer the normal rules for shooting in darkness.

[dragonhunterq]

If I am standing 100' away from someone in a dark cave, they have a torch and I don't, I can see them clearly but they cannot see me. I do not even need darkvision to see them, they are clearly illuminated. However I am effectively invisible to them. If I move or attack I can be pinpointed, but will still have total concealment.

relevant FAQ mentioned by Hugo.

[Hugo Rune]

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Well deurgar have darkvision, so they can see regardless.

Now if a party member tries to shoot back at the deurgar and they do not have darkvision (or are too far away for their darkvision to pierce it), then they suffer the normal rules for shooting in darkness.

Duergar have 120' darkvision so their sight would be blocked by more than 120' of magical darkness. But they could see the light source even if it was a mile away or more if they had a clear view and less than 120' of magical darkness to see through. Also there vision would be blocked by 1" of magical darkness if it was more than 120' away and between them and the light source.

Dragonhunterq: Thanks for linking the FAQ. It's too hard to do on my phone.

[CampinCarl9127]

Nothing in the OP mentioned magical darkness, so I assumed we were dealing with the normal kind.

[Diego Rossi]

Hugo Rune wrote:

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Well deurgar have darkvision, so they can see regardless.

Now if a party member tries to shoot back at the deurgar and they do not have darkvision (or are too far away for their darkvision to pierce it), then they suffer the normal rules for shooting in darkness.

Duergar have 120' darkvision so their sight would be blocked by more than 120' of magical darkness. But they could see the light source even if it was a mile away or more if they had a clear view and less than 120' of magical darkness to see through. Also there vision would be blocked by 1" of magical darkness if it was more than 120' away and between them and the light source.

Dragonhunterq: Thanks for linking the FAQ. It's too hard to do on my phone.

Seeing the FAQ linked above, I don't agree with you. The Duergar will be able to see up to 120' away with darkvision, but normal sight would still be blocked by the darkness, so they wouldn't be able to see the lighted area at 121+ feet.

It is not darkvision 120' then normal sight beyond that, it is darkvision 120' or normal sight.

[Hugo Rune]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Seeing the FAQ linked above, I don't agree with you. The Duergar will be able to see up to 120' away with darkvision, but normal sight would still be blocked by the darkness, so they wouldn't be able to see the lighted area at 121+ feet.
It is not darkvision 120' then normal sight beyond that, it is darkvision 120' or normal sight.

That is a more restrictive interpretation, but I can see the rationale behind it.

The interpretation depends on how you see darkvision working. Is it a switch mode or a continuum. I see the continuum model being similar to colour vision underwater, where reds get absorbed first and progressively higher wavelengths get absorbed at greater depths until everything looks blue. In this model, the sensitivity to darkvision has run out but the other vision types still function. The switch model is more akin to putting on nightvision goggles.

But hey, I didn't like the official rule anyway and made a houserule so am probably not the best source of informed opinion on the subject.

[wraithstrike]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Hugo Rune wrote:

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Well deurgar have darkvision, so they can see regardless.

Now if a party member tries to shoot back at the deurgar and they do not have darkvision (or are too far away for their darkvision to pierce it), then they suffer the normal rules for shooting in darkness.

Duergar have 120' darkvision so their sight would be blocked by more than 120' of magical darkness. But they could see the light source even if it was a mile away or more if they had a clear view and less than 120' of magical darkness to see through. Also there vision would be blocked by 1" of magical darkness if it was more than 120' away and between them and the light source.

Dragonhunterq: Thanks for linking the FAQ. It's too hard to do on my phone.

Seeing the FAQ linked above, I don't agree with you. The Duergar will be able to see up to 120' away with darkvision, but normal sight would still be blocked by the darkness, so they wouldn't be able to see the lighted area at 121+ feet.

It is not darkvision 120' then normal sight beyond that, it is darkvision 120' or normal sight.

So you are saying that in normal light they see like a human, but in darkness they are restricted to 120 feet, and can not see light beyond it(120 feet of darkness), while the human could see the light?

[Diego Rossi]

wraithstrike wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

Hugo Rune wrote:

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Well deurgar have darkvision, so they can see regardless.

Now if a party member tries to shoot back at the deurgar and they do not have darkvision (or are too far away for their darkvision to pierce it), then they suffer the normal rules for shooting in darkness.

Duergar have 120' darkvision so their sight would be blocked by more than 120' of magical darkness. But they could see the light source even if it was a mile away or more if they had a clear view and less than 120' of magical darkness to see through. Also there vision would be blocked by 1" of magical darkness if it was more than 120' away and between them and the light source.

Dragonhunterq: Thanks for linking the FAQ. It's too hard to do on my phone.

Seeing the FAQ linked above, I don't agree with you. The Duergar will be able to see up to 120' away with darkvision, but normal sight would still be blocked by the darkness, so they wouldn't be able to see the lighted area at 121+ feet.

It is not darkvision 120' then normal sight beyond that, it is darkvision 120' or normal sight.

So you are saying that in normal light they see like a human, but in darkness they are restricted to 120 feet, and can not see light beyond it(120 feet of darkness), while the human could see the light?

Without a darkness spell blocking their sight? No. The two visions overlap.

With a darkness spell blocking normal sight? Sure, because only the darkvision work.

[Gwiber]

The situation is that the players are breaking into a locked prison with Deurgar in it.

The players will only have a torch for light, and I just wanted to know if the Duergar had any penalties for sitting in the dark and shooting the players from the darkness (normal darkness). No magic involved.

- - - - -

I handled it already that they did see the players. Luckily the players had the bright idea to toss a light coin into the room at range, and saw several of the Deurgar before they could attack.

The group barbarian ran in, and forced the Deurgar to engage in hand to hand.