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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

When you engage Channel Smite, and it with it, after the save is rolled, does the damage of the weapon and the Channel Smite stack together in terms of over coming or bypassing DR?

For whatever reason I have it in my head once Channel Smite is involved and successful. the regular DR has no effect on the damage the weapon used is doing, because its now all magical damage.

Does the DR subtract from the weapons damage since it's affected by Channel Smite?


Mo one has any thoughts?


My major stumbling block is not that a rogue can see a trap, its that sometimes there are just no methods to disable one as those traps are. OR the source of the trap is something a Rogue has no actual experience with.

Why is a Rogue with likely No Knowledge: Arcana, or very little of it, going to have enough knowledge on how to disable a magical trap? Recognize it as dangerous? Yeah I buy that. KNOW what to do about it? Not a chance.

How about a mentioned pit trap? Say its in a dungeon room and it covers the entire floor? Sure the Rogue can set it off prematurely to stop anyone form falling in. But if weight is what sets it off, how does he "Disable" said trap?

Recognition and premature activation are one thing, but disabling doesnt always make any sense. Or even having the skill to recognize the thing's functions enough to disable it.


Spells with a listed area of effect that cover particularly not just the ground, but up into the air.

In this case it was Ice Storm.

Flying Shaman gets caught in an ice storm, takes damage, but when next he starts to move, does the Ice Storm count as difficult terrain for him?

Does it only count as such on the ground? Or does it work in the air too for the flyer? And/Or does the method of movement negate the issue?


How is it Rogues are disabling these traps?

Is there any legitimate rules that can stop them from doing so?

Is it possible for a Rogue to see a magical trap, but have no way to disable it? Requiring him and the party in question to look for a way around it?


Apparently he finally found what he meant.

Campaign setting, Pg.43
Holy Warrior (Ex): A cleric with this ability is proficient with her deity’s favored weapon. In addition, her base attack bonus as a cleric equals her cleric level, and her cleric Hit Die becomes a d10.

I can't tell if this is just a natural addition tot he class, or some kind of special power or Feat or what?

It's not quite as potent as Cleric Level + Cleric BAB, but its still somewhat ridiculous.


I:m about to start playing a Dwarf Cleric in a game, and I the DM for the game is swearing up and down he saw a rules that says Dwarfs in particular can add their Cleric level to their BAB.

I've not been able to locate this as a fact in any of the books I have. Or the various SRD's.

Am I blind, is he right? Cause that would be awesome, for me.


The Angel was definitely going to attack the Rogue, to try and stop him from going after the cleric he was defending.

You may have been right, maybe I should have gone to an Acrobatics check.


I was confronted with a situation where a rogue in the party was trying to pursue a enemy cleric.

At the start of his round. he started to move, and was immediately running into an invisible Choral Angel that was guarding the Cleric (evil party here).

Mechanically seeking I was expecting to force him to stop right there because he had no way of knowing the Angel was there until it appeared and stopped him.

The player was clearly annoyed by the situation. and said he should get the rest of his movement, which I allowed with a penalty of the movement he tried. plus backing up, then he could take the rest of his move.

Is there a rule concerning this I missed? Should I have stopped him in place? Or did I do right in letting him continue moving?


So they would have a 15x17 result towards the "value" of the item. If its 50gp, they would get 255 towards the 500 pts they need to construct the item?


The situation is that the players are breaking into a locked prison with Deurgar in it.

The players will only have a torch for light, and I just wanted to know if the Duergar had any penalties for sitting in the dark and shooting the players from the darkness (normal darkness). No magic involved.

- - - - -

I handled it already that they did see the players. Luckily the players had the bright idea to toss a light coin into the room at range, and saw several of the Deurgar before they could attack.

The group barbarian ran in, and forced the Deurgar to engage in hand to hand.


Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week's worth of work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC.

If the DC is 15 (for instance), and you roll a 17, you multiply by 2? Or 17?


I know there are a lot of rules concerning how light works for the person(s) IN the light, and how they deal with seeing things away from them.

But are there any rules to concern myself with when it comes to someone sitting in the dark, and shooting people in light sources?

In this case there is a situation that involves Deurgar sitting in a dark area trying to pick off the party of players who will be carrying a light source.

Would there be any rules for or against the Deurgar I should be applying?


I didn't trap them there. They happily did that themselves chasing riches and ... well riches.

But yes. I am making it so they have to track what they have or suffer the consequences. Which is why I need to know about how many bullets he could make in a given time with the tools he had.

Considering their location and the large amount of metals they have recovered (in the form of coins) It seems like he wont be running out of bullets any time soon.


So we find ourselves in a quandry about rules.

The group I am running are deep in the equatorial region of Golarion on a chain of islands, with no real way off for a minimum of 6 months.

One of the players is a Gunsligner with a pistol, and a Gunsmithing kit, and about 60-70 bullets to his name.

He was smart enough to bring a melee weapon that he can use without penalty.

However even conserving bullets. after a bit more than a month he's run down, and is getting seriously concerned with resupply for his pistol.

The rules say the Kit will help him produce more, and how many based on a listed gold cost, but they say nothing about raw materials when you really have no real source of them like you could get in a city.

What exactly is actually needed in terms of supplies here? And since I don't really get the production rules how many can he make in a given period? Like a day?

At least with the books I have read at this point, the situation is highly, and annoyingly, vague.

Note: As was pointed out to me. real world. this chain of islands is part of a chain of dormant volcanoes, so there are, in real life terms, a number of the materials around.


Perception checks all around. One assume there are a slight, changes, in the way the party member behaves when the performance starts.

Why these sorts of thing would effect everyone in ear shot is debatable. As its not a combat situation you;d think it would amp EVERYONE who can hear it up.

Probably if you do give a perception check, make it hard as hell. UNless the other group has a Bard or even if there is another bard in the area listening who pops up trying to figure out what is going on.

That's something I would be likely to do just to make the party wary about pulling this kind of stunt later on.

"Hey.. dude's cheating!", in a bar full of people is a bad thing.


That's not really making it much of a "Hyrbid" Class is it? All the other hybrids borrow from the two classes they are made up of.

Swashbuckler seems to be more or less purely a light, one-handed weapon class.

Why isn't Swashbuckler a base class instead?


"Bringing together the martial mastery of the fighter and the style of the gunslinger"

Uhm, Reading through the rules. I've missed something. Cause other than the various grit and panache pools adding up. I don't see ANY reference to Gunslinger abilities in the Swashbuckler write up.

All the abilities, more or less, sway to a rapier, light one handed melee weapons, and not one mention of guns.

Have I missed something?


After 5 yrs of this game, I feel a bti retarded, and I think i should know this.

Example:

Snake Style (Combat, Style)

You watch your foe’s every movement and then punch through its defense.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Acrobatics 1 rank, Sense Motive 3 ranks.

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks, and you can deal piercing damage with your unarmed strikes. While using the Snake Style feat, when an opponent targets you with a melee or ranged attack, you can spend an immediate action to make a Sense Motive check. You can use the result as your AC or touch AC against that attack. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

Normal: An unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage.

Can this feat be taken at 3rd level? OR must you wait for a new feat opportunity to come along? Do you have to have bought the 3rd rank in Sense motive before you could buy this? (thus having to wait for a new fat to come up). Or can you buy Sense motive: 3 at 3rd level, AND take this feat?


This Szuriel Cleric is about to head into Rahadoum (sp?) where they absolutely HATE Clerics and divine casters.

And they WILL search him for symbology, I was just wondering if he can get away with using his greatsword and unnatural skin tone as his holy
symbol so he doesn't have anything obvious about him.

Last thing he needs is someone trying to kill him for being a Cleric. Being an agent of the Horseman of War is bad enough if they find that out.


Divine Focus (DF)

A divine focus component is an item of spiritual significance. The divine focus for a cleric or a paladin is a holy symbol appropriate to the character's faith. The divine focus for a druid or a ranger is a sprig of holly, or some other sacred plant.

In the case I am discussing, the group is all too evil, and there is a Cleric.

The party follows Szuriel, is there a functional mechnical reason he cant use his blackened greatsword, and his (very pale skin) hand to present the weapon as a divine focus while casting? (Or even just wear a white glove on both hands?)

Szuriel's holy symbol: Pale hand and black sword


Other than "jumping the gun" a bit, is there any good reason to take the two weapon fighting feat as a monk?

It would be using u a feat slot early on to get the monk bonus earlier than the class would give it to you.

But is it worth it necessarily? Would having taken two weapon fighting and improved two weapon fighting earlier than you get them from the class provide any "extra" bonuses?


I looked into spectral hand, but since this special ability isn't marked as a "spell" or given any equivalent level, is there a way to deliver this touch attack as a ranged touch?

I have a 8th Wizard (Conjuration School) Wizard with 2 levels in Soul Drinker, who would get his backside handed to him trying to get close enough to deliver this attack.

Looking for a way to use it ranged somehow.

-----

Soul Pool (Su): At 2nd level, a souldrinker gains a pool of soul points, stolen life energy she can use to accomplish unnatural feats. The number of soul points in the pool begins at 0 and only increases when the souldrinker uses her energy drain ability on a suitable target. A souldrinker gains 1 soul point for each negative level bestowed by her energy drain, but only if the target’s soul qualifies as at least an “animal spirit” with Hit Dice equal to or greater than the souldrinker’s class level, a “basic soul,” or something more powerful/notable (see The Soul Trade on page 30). The maximum number of soul points a souldrinker can have in her pool is equal to 1/2 her class level plus her spellcasting ability modifier; any points above this are wasted. Note that soul points are fragments of souls and do not prevent a slain creature from being raised.


Nargemn wrote:

It sounds like he may be misinterpreting the circling mongoose feat.

Other than that feat, no, five-foot stepping does not let you get to flank them under normal circumstances.

Dumb question, reading that referenced feat. Other than looking cool, what is the practical use of it?


Does a Rogue get to use a double move with the following talent?

Fast Stealth (Ex)

Benefit: This ability allows a rogue to move at full speed using the Stealth skill without penalty


Out of curiosity, what difference does drawing back a sword and smacking someone, make as versus drawing a bow and doing the same thing. In terms of AoO?

Yes, I know its in the rules. But really? At that range and in that situation, it doesn't make any sense.


My group has a pretty strongly designed Monk who trips just about anything in sight. Is the +2 AC bonus for the group ranger really appropriate for the Prone target when the Ranger moves up adjacent to the Prone target?

Usually once a target goes down the Monk can keep it there.

The DM keeps insisting the books says Ranged receives a -2 pen to hit (+2 bonus to target AC) against a prone target, despite the fact said Ranged is standing over the target looking down at it.

Is there a rule that does away with what appears to be nonsense?


Seems like you could answer this simply by reasoning it out.

Bard use ability.

Friend or friends 'disappear".

One or more of them do something that draws attention to themselves and breaks Indivisibility.

They need to do something that causes them to vanish again.

Either they need to provide their own invisibility, or satisfy the conditions under which the Disappearing Act requires to work.

Does the bard have to STOP what he is doing and start over? No I imagine not. He's always been trying to draw attention away from his allies anyway. His allies don't auto-disappear though, they still have to beat those will saves to re-enter the Disappearing Act.

Seems like this would be most useful in crowds with mixed hostiles and non hostiles. In a situation with just enemies, and the Bard and his allies. all he is really doing is making himself the target of every enemy in sight who fails the Will Save. Damn good way to die.


Would it be possible to get a Wizard or Sorcerer to “trap” an object. Say a small rock, with say, a fireball with some kind of magical trigger to go off when someone is too close (Some derivative of Alarm maybe), then cast invisibility on it (Expecting it to be crossed in a reasonably short period of time) And then drop it in the path of the enemy?

That leads to this. How would a Rogue with trap Sense mechanically work with a trapped magic rock. That is invisible, just sitting on the floor as they are about to pas it up?

Would the Rogue be legitimately able to even notice it? And even if he did. How would he “Disable Device” on the thing? Especially if he couldn't even see it to mess with it? (What if it were one pebble on a floor covered in small rocks? For instance)

Another thing I am wondering is could one pick up a rock. Trap it. Invis it. The teleport the rock to said location. No one would even know it was coming, til it blew up in their faces.

My game is reaching a point of power were things are becoming “all or nothing” Either something hits and HURTS, or, the PC's and NPC's brush it off as if it never happened. It doesn't matter of its physical combat, a trap, or magic.

Would a Rogue get to dance out of such a trap with his Evasion/Uncanny dodge ability? He wouldn't even have the luxury of hearing a spell being cast to have ANY sense of it even coming to do so.

- - - -

This all comes from the fact that in my game I assume that PC's who have a greater than say 14 intelligence, tend to be a lot smarter than the players who play them. (Going on the theory that each point of Int is 10 points of IQ, roughly) If your average Wizard for instance stats with say.. a 16 base intelligence and is a race that can add to +2 to Intelligence. By 8th level they are sporting a 20 Intelligence. These are beyond genius level “people”. And a very old Dragon Magazine, from back in the print days in the 90's, suggested that you have such people just KNOW. Or have prepared for the things you as a ST weren't prepared for the players to do. Especially if these high Intelligence people had time to pan. Simply because they are just that damned smart. (With the caveat of having some common sense to not thwart every thought the players have and make the game unfun.)

I am trying to think of serious “out of the box” methods of surprising the players. And this invisible fireball rock is one of the ideas I came up with off the top of my head.


Nefreet wrote:

The playtest classes are rather different from anything we have currently. Some may have features similar to other classes, but they're each different enough to warrant a new publication.

Plus, what will sell more? Releasing another splatbook on Sorcerer Bloodlines, or releasing a new hardback with 6 new classes, archetypes of those classes, feats, a new category of magic, and new items to go with it all?

If you label the new book as they are, and do away with the 6 new classes, refer to them as Sorcerer bloodlines and a wizard school of magic, and then put all the rest of that stuff you listed in it?

Probably the same sale amount as you are going to get as they are doing it now.

I highly doubt there would be any ultimate sales number difference.


Claxon wrote:
To be fair, the pathfinder version is not psionics but psychic magic.

Yeah, which leads me to the rather now boring refrain of.. "The Psychic is a Sorcerer"

There was no need for it to be more than another Sorcerer Bloodline really.

Waste of page count.

Really ALL of the Psychic stuff could have been easily lumped into Schools of Magic and Bloodlines without even missing a beat.


It's +3 damage to the spell. So have the caster roll the magic missile damages, then add +3 at the end.

Despite how many missiles are shot, it's still one spell.


An official Psionics supplement is coming for Pathfinder, along with new classes.

However be aware Psionics is treated as simply another form of magic, in the new rules.

Most Psionics is mental manipulation of magic in Pathfinder, rather than manipulation of a separate form of mental energy.


Once I read somewhere, that the Vancian system was considered so bad, that 3.5? I think, changed the fluff of how spells work in terms of "regaining" them. I also wonder first if the way o doing it I read was how it is intended in Pathfinder.

The ides was that a Wizard or Priest isn't studying/praying for the new spells to re-memorize them.

What they are doing is actually spending the time to go through the process of casting the spells in question, gathering up the energy and what not, and then letting them "hang", unfinished, about themselves.

Then they are using a action or round, or whatever to finish casting the spell along with any material components that may be required to focus the spell.

Thus the caster is not re-memorizing spells, they are just setting them up for later use when the time comes.

This brings me to my second issue. What about this system prevents a caster from targeting another caster with Dispel magic, and ripping away however many spells the Dispel Magic goes through? In theory that is magic hanging about waiting to be used, so would not Dispel Magic destroy them potentially?


Power Creep.

If you look at the first books to come out, then looks at new ones, an think "Why am I reminded of RIFTS?"

THEN, you are definitely feeling power creep.

Power creep is obvious when looking at what came out before, and you see something new, and it has in it what came before, and something a little extra, making what came out before irrelevant . "Why bother with that< This has the same thing, and, I can do this too!'

Bloat, which Pathfinder is, without a doubt into, appears when the base material has had every thing in it explained and expanded, then even more stuff starts coming out, that ultimately is only there because the company rightfully needs to continue to sell stuff to keep existing,

Pathfinder still has a few areas left unexplored, but they need to stick to exploring ONLY those areas, and stop creeqing new stuff that doesn't fit those areas, because virtually all of it that comes out that isn't, is just bloat, to fill a page count, cover, and slap a price tag on it.

I've watched this happen with RIFTS, AD&D 2nd Ed, Ars Magica 3rd edition, DnD 3.X, Classic World of Darkness, New World of Darkness, Cyberpunk 2020, etc.

I can see these things coming with a lucky 30 years of gaming experience.

Pathfinder 2nd Ed needs to come to compress down the options that have been presented, throw away what has been proven not to work, and pull into the core what has come from expansions that has proven to work and should have been there in the first place.

What they should also do in 2nd Edition is produce a single book each year that does away with fluff, and present a bound version of JUST rules and mechanics from the books that came out the year before for condensing and resource reference. A kind of Rules Compendium for that year. It would keep GM;s for instance closer to the rules, but would still require people to buy the original full books to get the information surrounding the rules, the cultures. the stories, the mindsets those mechanics came from.


Problem may be as much definition as rules. Coup De Grace is not a non lethal attack, even outside the rules. It's a killing blow. By just very definition is implicit the blow is intend to kill the target.

The guy needs to fin a rule about how to knock people out. Not use a rule meant to kill a target to do so.

Granted there should be a rule, if there isn't one, for a special attack (scoring a crit), that COULD in a failed save knock someone flat out cold.

Much like being in a fist fight and suddenly one guy just flat out head butts the other in the face and knocks the target out cold. The target clearly is still quite healthy, and would in game terms still have a lot of hit points, but you just did something to punch his lights out in a single unexpected attack that his body could not handle. (Successful attack, failed save)


Simple enough.

Is there a rule for or against a barbarian (or whatever) Using Rage, that states they can think tactically, or must they use more base and crude instinctual forms of action and reaction.

Based on my understanding of Rage. It has a lot to do with giving into to your emotions and just flying off the handler on on opponent, which doesn't much allow for tactics. Working towards a goal, or anything other than, well, “HULK SMASH!”*

I have had my NPC Barbarians/Rage users reflect this attitude in my games as DM, but our other DM has regularly had Barbarians working in a tactical minded group to take on our party, while you know, said Barbarian NPC's are frothing at the mouth trying to hack down everything in sight also.

* With just enough 'awareness' not to try and turn a friend into hamburger. Or just aware enough of self not to push themselves into death, unless they want to.


Based on my perception of how the power is generated? Spell Resistance to something hat isn't magic (Which I think it should not be) Makes no sense.

And as I have said, if it IS psychic manipulation of magical energy. then this class should actually be a school of magic and a bloodline.


Realistically you are all dancing around the fact that describing Psychic Powers as a Mental energy instead of Magical energy, and having a Psychic Resistance stat for them instead of Spell Resistance is NOT a huge or onerous leap to make.

A sidebar listing Psychic Creatures, and saying "Their listed spells are Psychic instead, is not a huge or onerous addition to put in a book either. Nor is leaving them as magical if you aren't using the book to begin with

Using the standard spell lists they ALREADY tell you to use and saying "Add Psychic descriptor" to them isn't a huge or difficult thing either. Just means when the issue comes up, "Use PR instead of SR".

It doesn't require a reworking of the rules in anyway.

Any comment that this is making a Psychic too powerful is ridiculous.


Thefuzzy1 wrote:
To add PR would mean every monster printed would need to be gone back over with a should this get PR question, then a huge errata made. I don't see the last one as very likely though.

Not at all.

I mentioned this already (more than once).

New rules appear in new books all the time that have backwards ramifications.

How they have handled it so far is to either add a section that shows the changes to the past writings as a part of a chapter. Or just insert a sidebar that talks about it and how to apply it, and then they move on with the rest of the book.

In books that come after, the new rule is just included as par for the course.

They've already done it many times over, and will do it again in newer books.

IF they were forced to rewrite and reissue every book when they added a new rule item, we'd never stop buying books and would quickly get more than a little miffed with Paizo.


"Psychic Magic" is the point. It means psychic manipulation of magical energy in the case they are showing in the Occult book.

Manipulation of actual Psychic Energy itself, not Magical Energy, would require an entirely different rule set.

And thus my original issue. If the Psychic was meant to be manipulating real psychic energy, not magical energy, then Spell Resistance wouldn't have any effect on the Psychics powers.

As they are now, the class is nothing more than an oddly glorified Wizard or Sorcerer. They are doing the very same thing those classes are doing. Thus, my contention they should just be schools and bloodlines for those classes.


IF we go by the thought that a Psychic is applying his mind to affect magical energy, and not the mental energy he creates himself. Then yes.. Spell resistance works. The Psychic is still manipulating the same force that other casters use.

Which still makes him... a Sorcerer or Wizard. They are doing, the exact, same, thing. Using their knowledge or inborn abilities to manipulate magical energy.

The Psychic just happens to use a different manner of manipulating said energy.

But he is still, just a caster, and should still fall under the auspice of being either Wizard or Sorcerer, not a special class unto itself.

It's about the same effect as taking the lockpicking and trap skills out of the Rogue class, and calling it another class entirely that doesn't get precision damage.

You could, but why the hell would you bother? Anyone who sees it could just as easily take Rogue and get All the benefits instead.

Turning Psychic into a school of magic, allows you to do the very same thing. Pick it as a school as a wizard, and get all the benefits of it. as well a the benefits of being a wizard to boot. K+Just like being an Evocationist does.


Actually its simple. Create a Psychic School of Magic (Like Abjuration, Evocation, Necromancy etc.) And just have the powers groups already listed be sub schools (like subdomains) granting them at certain levels like all the other schools do. That turns the Psychic Wizard out perfectly fine.

You can also just create a Sorcerer Psychic Bloodline as I suggested before. Everything is covered, and the fact that a Psychic is manipulating magic makes perfect sense.

And there's not any need for a Psychic class.


If, they are wanting to say that the Psychic uses their mind and emotions to reach out and manipulate magical energy then the class as present makes sense to me.

A Psychic has learned to use his mind or was born with or has learned the ability to use his mind to manipulate magical energy and cast spells.

But you now what? That? Is a Wizard or Sorcerer. One has learned how to manipulate magic through knowledge. The other was born with the power to do so intrinsically without having to learn it or call for it.

There's no need for the Psychic class to even exist. It could just be labeled as an School for a Wizard and a Bloodline for Sorcerer. Then you could list all the various Psychic spells as things only those two things could access, only their form of training, or lucky circumstance of Birth allows them to access those abilities.

Really making them exclusive to that school or Bloodline wouldn't be required. In the Sorcerer's case, you would just get those powers like you do any bloodline power. Not sure how you would limit it in the case of a Wizard. You could just keep it as a pure Sorcerer bloodline, and keep the Psychic stuff as Bloodline powers and Spells, limiting it that way to be only accessible through those means.

You were either born with the capacity to use it, or you weren't.


I don't believe in magic. ghosts or pretty much anything in a supernatural form. But belief really isn't the point in RL times.

The difference in magic and Psychic is one of source.

Magic is the manipulation of an ambient existing energy through various means from outside oneself. Learning. granting it to you. or natural talent to manipulate it. The magic user doesn't create the energy himself, he only uses it.

Psychic energy is the force generated, manipulated, and controlled by the body and mind. Created by the individual using it themselves.

There in lies the fundamental difference, and why I see and want the two forms of power to be separate entities.

Taken in that vein, it makes total sense the defensive mechanisms that are naturally inherent to stop one, would not be effective on the other, or at least not nearly as effective.

Spell Resistance, to me, is an inherent and natural (relatively speaking) Resistance to the effects of magical energy. To me, it should have no bearing on Mental Energy that does not rely on the Magical force.

It's not an active resistance you have brought forth to defend yourself, which I COULD see being a defense between the two forms of energy.

That's why I dislike Spell Resistance having any bearing on Psychic power.


kestral287 wrote:
The magic itself-- Psychic, Arcane, or Divine-- is the same. It's HOW the magic is obtained that is different. All manipulate the same fundamental power.

Sadly the Sorcerer fundamentally manipulates power the way they are representing Psychic power in more or less the exact same way. Again making the Psychic "Magic" system, redundant.

Shiroi wrote:
You wanna strip the defense of every one of my monsters? Yours is gone too. My lvl 18 fireball? Psychic Resistance doesn't block it. Make your massive damage fort save.

Yeah, kinda the point. They don't mix and challenge each other. As if most creatures or PC's posses SR either, to be able to use against that self same fireball?

That really isn't exactly a problem.

Psyren wrote:
@ Gwiber - Psychic Spells are still Spells. They are not a completely different type of energy as psionics were,

Which is my point. I wanted it to be a differnt form of power.

Calling it "Psychic" is the mistake in my opinion. Psychic and Magic are two different things. And should have been represented as such.


Odraude wrote:
"Answer me this. Why should psychic magic be rare and unbalanced? What makes psionics not magic?"

Adding PR, isn't making Psychic Power any more rare or unbalanced than having SR for magic does.

I also said not a thing personally about making Psychic Power unbalanced. that was someone else' comment. Made because they somehow though a PR stat would make the powers that way.

It would be NICE if the implication is that Psychic Power is a much rarer and unusual power in a realm dominated by magical power however. Something that few people are aware of, or seek out because Magic is so much more prevalent and easier to access.

And as to the comments that we knew Psychic power was going to be a form of magic? Yeah. So? That's also my point I wanted it to be something OTHER than a form of magic.

Like I said, it's a missed opportunity.

I also have a stark preference for not using Pathfinder products in my games that are not written by Paizo. my group doesn't use other companies books.


Odraude wrote:
LazarX wrote:


By the premises of that argument, psychic magic should be an NPC/Monster item only, not a way to create an obscenely powered up PC.

Agreed. This comes a bit too close to the realm of "super special snowflake" territory for my tastes.

Really, adding PR and making SR not work on Psychic powers isn't that much of a power change. It's one somewhat rare defensive stat that isn't always there, any more than SR is.

That hardly creates an over powered “special snowflake.” That's a knee jerk over reaction.

kestral287 wrote:
Let me ask you this: Would you support dividing Spell Resistance into Arcane Resistance, Divine Resistance, and Psychic Resistance?

No need with magic. Divine or Arcane. The magic itself is the same. It's HOW the magic is attained that is different. Both manipulate the same essential power.

Wizards learn to do so on their own via their training. Clerics do so by asking a god to grant it to them directly. Sorcerers are born with the intrinsic knowledge how to do so from their parentage.

Psychic magic.. should not have the word Magic in it at all. It should just be Psychic power. Otherwise its really not “psychic” it's just another form of magical manipulation which is what Sorcerers do.

The frank feeling is, this is nothing more than another magic casting class, and not a mental energy type thing, which they could have done so much more, something uniquely different with.

And it disappoints me.

If they were going to delve into the realm of being Psychic; they should have kept it, Psychic. Now? It's just more of the over blown and bloated standard magic system.


blahpers wrote:
PR would be either an enormous change--errata hunting on existing monsters to grant a bunch of them PR--or a backdoor version of "no SR at all for psychics", which has severe ramifications for the game. Play it that way if you like. Let us know how it turns out.

Said this once, probably several times.

New rules come in all the time that have ramifications on things already in print.

They deal with that usually by reprinting the old information in the new book as it applies to the new information, or just adding a minor sidebar note in the new book.

The only thing I am saying is that SR shouldn't apply to Psychic powers, and Psychic Resistance shouldn't apply to Spells.

It's not what you would call particularly difficult as a concept.

Psychic Energy and Magic energy should not be the same thing. they should be two different sources of power, and interact with the environment differently than each other.

Otherwise what is the real actual point in differentiating a Psychic from a subclass archetype or even prestige class of the already existing PC classes? Really, as they are, they would make perfect Sorcerer Bloodlines in mechanical terms.


Herald wrote:
As it stands now, everyone still gets saving throws for any type of magic thrown at them unless it specifically mentions it in the spell.

... everyone gets some kind of "Save", be it AC, CMD, or an outright save, against something thrown at them. Not just for magic. Some are rolled in response. some are static, "unless it specifically mentions it in the (specifica ability)"

Not really sure where your comment is meant to be going there.

Herald wrote:
But lets add psychic resistance to the mix. I have a monster who has PR 18 but no SR. So my Wizard, Cleric and Magus are blasting this thing to bits but my Psychic is hating life because his spells aren't getting through. Or we can flip the script. Now one guy is loving life, but the rest of the players are hating it because the spotlight isn't shared.

Kinda like saying a Creature with a High SR entirely marginalizes a magic user and side lines him, while the melee types get to to have all the fun.

If your PC hits a SR wall (High SR he just can't seem to beat) with his spells, and suddenly just gives up, then that's something you as a player are doing wrong.

Herald wrote:
It sucks standing on the sideline when your character is marginalized. There are assumptions that are made into the game to so people can make characters that are effective. Your proposal goes in a direction that would upset a lot of players.

I'm pretty sure a spellcaster being able to hit some creature that isn't solid enough to be smacked with a sword upsets melee players too.

Sometimes you run into odd things that make the way you are used to doing things. ineffective, and you have to rethink your strategy, and come at the situation with a different approach.

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