
Chengar Qordath |

I generally like 6th level casters more. They might not be quite as terrifying with spells, but they usually make up for it with better mundane combat skills plus a nice smattering of class abilities that really add to their non-spell options.
Bard, Inquisitor, and Investigator are my personal favorites since they really feel like some of the most versatile classes in the game. Spells, mundane combat, and skills all in one package.

hiiamtom |
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I prefer vanilla 9th level casting NPCs (like wizards or clerics) that serve to aid the adventuring party, while the party themselves are very capable at just about anything but are extremely capable at one thing.
9th level casters in the system are really too versatile for a PC (my opinion) since they are capable of solving just about any out of combat problem while still having plenty of in combat solutions. It just makes the optimization boring and I feel like many players that don't optimize can easily be incapable of most things because the base chassis is so weak.
6th level caster, on the other hand, can always attack or always use some class ability their class is built for if they don't have an optimized spell list. It allows more variety and interest in the game and as a GM it is much, much, much easier to balance a party of only 6th level casters than trying to balance a rogue vs wizard. I might as well just through the rules out the window in the second case.

Chengar Qordath |

6-level casters.
I like both having and being good at skills (especially social skills), and doing physical combat rather than offensive casting.
There are precious few 9-level casters who match that set of criteria. Oracles are pretty much it, to be honest.
I'd say Druids can also be decent at skills and physical combat. Wildshape + buffs + an animal companion makes the Druid a fine melee combatant, and 4+Int skill points gives them a decent base to build off of for skills (though more focused on exploration skills than social ones).

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I'd say Druids can also be decent at skills and physical combat. Wildshape + buffs + an animal companion makes the Druid a fine melee combatant, and 4+Int skill points gives them a decent base to build off of for skills (though more focused on exploration skills than social ones).
This is true, but that last bit is kinda a deal breaker for me. Druids make terrible social characters and I can't shut up to save my life, not in an RPG anyway. And talky Druids are way too awkward to make to be a lot of fun for me.

Chengar Qordath |

Chengar Qordath wrote:I'd say Druids can also be decent at skills and physical combat. Wildshape + buffs + an animal companion makes the Druid a fine melee combatant, and 4+Int skill points gives them a decent base to build off of for skills (though more focused on exploration skills than social ones).This is true, but that last bit is kinda a deal breaker for me. Druids make terrible social characters and I can't shut up to save my life, not in an RPG anyway. And talky Druids are way too awkward to make to be a lot of fun for me.
Yeah, Druids get no in-class social skills by default (unless you count handle animal). Not to mention they generally use charisma as their main dump stat, though at least wisdom-based casting means they'd be good at sense motive.
Granted, some archetypes change your class skills (Goliath Druid snags you bluff and diplomacy, plus it's a personal favorite of mine) and you can always spend traits to add to your skill list. But then you're locking yourself into specific archetypes and/or spending traits that an Oracle could use elsewhere just to gain Face skills.

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9th level casters are the strongest, no arguments there. But I find that the 6th level casters tend to get really interesting mechanics thrown in to make up for their inability to cast those higher level spells. Plus, they tend to get a 3/4 BAB and average-or-better skill points, so you have a lot going on.

666bender |
Chengar Qordath wrote:I'd say Druids can also be decent at skills and physical combat. Wildshape + buffs + an animal companion makes the Druid a fine melee combatant, and 4+Int skill points gives them a decent base to build off of for skills (though more focused on exploration skills than social ones).This is true, but that last bit is kinda a deal breaker for me. Druids make terrible social characters and I can't shut up to save my life, not in an RPG anyway. And talky Druids are way too awkward to make to be a lot of fun for me.
still not right...
lion shaman has glory domain, that add a huge sum to the skills.i had a halfling druid that had charisma of 14, he isnt a bard - but he did well.
my lion shaman was a former knight - that a mishap fused it with it's lion mount.

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If I were going for pure power, 9-level casters win. But I prefer 6th-level casters because I feel like I don't have to hold back using them to avoid breaking things.
Oracle and Bard top my list for favorite classes. They're both very versatile and get party-useful stuff for free. Plus, ASF can suck it.
I still need to try Warpriest one of these days.

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Maybe it's just me and my playstyle. But I never really found 9th level casters to be the problem so many others do. Not sure if it's because I've never specifically tried to break the game when playing one, because I generally don't do the "silly" things that others find overpowered, or what. Mind you, I do try to use my spells creatively. Especially at low levels. But then again I try to use my abilities creatively regardless of class.
Plus I'm more then willing to accept a GM ruling of "That doesn't work" or "That's really difficult, you probably can't do it. But here's the DC."

412294 |

Maybe it's just me and my playstyle. But I never really found 9th level casters to be the problem so many others do. Not sure if it's because I've never specifically tried to break the game when playing one, because I generally don't do the "silly" things that others find overpowered, or what. Mind you, I do try to use my spells creatively. Especially at low levels. But then again I try to use my abilities creatively regardless of class.
Plus I'm more then willing to accept a GM ruling of "That doesn't work" or "That's really difficult, you probably can't do it. But here's the DC."
I get the impression a lot of the strong stuff is in the higher levels, particularly because it's never seemed an issue at a low level for me, so if you don't tend to play much in higher levels that might be it.