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As a long time RPG player, I know that this one usually has several definitions. Cannibalism is generally considered an EVIL action, and since PFS bans evil characters, I figured I'd double check how this one is defined in the PFS setting.
Example, can a dwarf eat an elf? Obviously, proper cooking is required, but are their species considered different enough for it for the elf to qualify as normal meat? How does PFS handle food?
I recall a Dark Sun D&D encounters group where the GM seemed "shocked" that my human PC would consider eating a deceased tri-keen (insect humanoid). To me, it was odd that the encounter didn't account for it, as they had the party had to keep track of rations for our iffy survival in the desert.
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It isn't. Page 35 of the Roleplaying Guild Guide describes how to handle alignment infractions. What is an evil act is not codified as a PFS-specific rule, but follows the Pathfinder RPG rules for alignment (CRB, page 166-168).
How does PFS handle food?
CRB, page 444-445. If you assume a scenario or GM won't ever apply those rules, you might be lucky, or not.
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It's a Western taboo. PFS tends to be kind of sensitive to Western taboos, so Your Mileage May Vary.
Venture-Agent, Finland—Tampere
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Its one of those "So its okay to kill a dragon, skin its hide and wear it, but its not okay to eat one because its intelligent?" questions that are pretty confusing in setting with objective good and evil, but killing apparently not being objectively evil xD
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Well, during the Brockian Epoch, most anything that was considered a taboo by Western culture was generally classified as evil (well, except for all that killin'!) and outlawed... to include certain spells, feats, professions and class abilities. Unless it is changed by the current Overlord, expect that if it sounds "bad", it is illegal.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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A good question considering how the Flesheater archetype from Occult Adventures is legal. Is someone in PFs limited to animals and animal-intelligence magical beasts?
I'm surprised by that one too.
I suppose to some extent context matters. Someone who consumes part of a defeated foe to merge with them and honor them is a little different than someone who is eating them to see how they taste, or because it is cheaper than carrying rations. But yes, ETV.
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I suppose to some extent context matters. Someone who consumes part of a defeated foe to merge with them and honor them is a little different than someone who is eating them to see how they taste, or because it is cheaper than carrying rations. But yes, ETV.
I think a good counterpoint might be the raging cannibal archetype, which specifies creature of the same type. Ignoring the fact its subject to the outright ban of Champions of Corruption, maybe the type similarity is what makes it evil...
Looks like Dragon's back on the menu, boys!
It's a Western taboo. PFS tends to be kind of sensitive to Western taboos, so Your Mileage May Vary.No, it isn't.
Yes, it is. I may have been unclear.
Cannibalism has been a taboo in most societies across the globe across most of history. It is only rare outliers that permit it.
It is indeed a taboo to multiple cultures. Western (that is to say, European-originating) cultures are the ones that I am talking about. Its existence as a taboo in Aboriginal Australian cultures is not of equal concern to its existence as a taboo in Western cultures when it comes to Pathfinder's "ew gross" morality loopholes. Even if Western cultures were the sole exception, the loopholes would most likely remain (which is why a paladin falls for leaving the bathroom door open, even though many non-American cultures have no problem with such behavior).
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It's a grey line. I have a bloatmage that will soon have the ability to gain sorc bloodline powers by drinking the blood of certain creatures, most of which are sentient.
As a roleplaying exercise I play the research side of this power, asking for blood samples from players. However, it is a tricky line to not cross when it comes to an enemy I have recently slain, especially when the party is full of clerics / paladins.
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It's a grey line. I have a bloatmage that will soon have the ability to gain sorc bloodline powers by drinking the blood of certain creatures, most of which are sentient.
As a roleplaying exercise I play the research side of this power, asking for blood samples from players. However, it is a tricky line to not cross when it comes to an enemy I have recently slain, especially when the party is full of clerics / paladins.
"So I ah, have to take some blood samples to make sure they're not ridden with some sort of, ah, horrific disease or something. And to make sure they're ah, people we should have ah, death-vagrant'd."
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"So I ah, have to take some blood samples to make sure they're not ridden with some sort of, ah, horrific disease or something. And to make sure they're ah, people we should have ah, death-vagrant'd."It's a grey line. I have a bloatmage that will soon have the ability to gain sorc bloodline powers by drinking the blood of certain creatures, most of which are sentient.
As a roleplaying exercise I play the research side of this power, asking for blood samples from players. However, it is a tricky line to not cross when it comes to an enemy I have recently slain, especially when the party is full of clerics / paladins.
-4 to that bluff check for saying that while holding the crazy straw
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If it used to be sentient its not on the menu.
Well, unless they're Reefclaws, of course.
Pretty sure I've seen a few scenarios &/or mods that had reefclaw stew...|
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It's a Western taboo. PFS tends to be kind of sensitive to Western taboos, so Your Mileage May Vary.No, it isn't.Yes, it is. I may have been unclear.
Cannibalism has been a taboo in most societies across the globe across most of history. It is only rare outliers that permit it.It is indeed a taboo to multiple cultures. Western (that is to say, European-originating) cultures are the ones that I am talking about. Its existence as a taboo in Aboriginal Australian cultures is not of equal concern to its existence as a taboo in Western cultures when it comes to Pathfinder's "ew gross" morality loopholes. Even if Western cultures were the sole exception, the loopholes would most likely remain (which is why a paladin falls for leaving the bathroom door open, even though many non-American cultures have no problem with such behavior).
So what about Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern, African, Native American, Latin American, and South American cultures? I assume you arent wanting to lump them into a group as being ok with canabalism, since its a 'European' taboo, but that seems to be close to what you are unintentionally (Im sure) doing.
Perhaps you want to clarify again? :P
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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It is going to come down to GM judgement.
If you are at my table, and you are eating a sentient creature (I.E. over 2 int) or former sentient creature*, you had probably better be doing it for survival reasons.
Which makes the whole Barbarian Eat Em UP Archetype from Occult Adventures that is allowed all the more weirder and kind of scares me that they don't actually bother to read the material that they allow.
EDIT:Ok the cannibalism part isn't necessarily implied but jeez that is awfully close.
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Here's the thing: in PFS, you likely don't know the other people at your table that well. (If you do, then you're lucky and probably know how to handle it.) If there is no mechanical reason to deal with this, it's best to leave it alone. No one roleplays eating trail rations, so why would you roleplay eating sentient beings?
For the few(?) (new-ish?) legal options that allow this, or require it... well, many folks ignore the fluff text of many of their traits, feats, etc and just count up the +1's... it's probably best to do the same thing with borderline acts like this, unless you know your table-mates really well.
Basically, your desire to roleplay eating other people does not trump the desires of everyone else at the table, who may just want to play PFS and not be grossed out by scenes like this. The GM is within their rights to tell you (nicely) to stop it, please.
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As a long time RPG player, I know that this one usually has several definitions. Cannibalism is generally considered an EVIL action, and since PFS bans evil characters, I figured I'd double check how this one is defined in the PFS setting.
Example, can a dwarf eat an elf? Obviously, proper cooking is required, but are their species considered different enough for it for the elf to qualify as normal meat? How does PFS handle food?
I recall a Dark Sun D&D encounters group where the GM seemed "shocked" that my human PC would consider eating a deceased tri-keen (insect humanoid). To me, it was odd that the encounter didn't account for it, as they had the party had to keep track of rations for our iffy survival in the desert.
We have an unspoken house rule at our table. If it's a PC playable race, it's a no-no. Other than that game on, in fact we've had a few PC's (usually Dwarves for some reason:) over the years specialize in cooking that purposely go looking for different creatures just to see how they taste and the other GM or I will attempt a theoretical taste for it. I.E. it's either palatable or not (funny how none of it seems to taste like chicken though:). If all else fails, use your Goblin sorcerer to cast prestidigitation to make it taste like licorice and it's all good! Right!?!?!:)
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Its one of those "So its okay to kill a dragon, skin its hide and wear it, but its not okay to eat one because its intelligent?" questions that are pretty confusing in setting with objective good and evil, but killing apparently not being objectively evil xD
In PFS dragon-hide armor isn't ok (or at least isn't always available) and the dragoncrafter's kit is not legal (double whammy with crafting I guess :) I am sure other examples exist too.
I'm surprised by that one too.
I suppose to some extent context matters. Someone who consumes part of a defeated foe to merge with them and honor them is a little different than someone who is eating them to see how they taste, or because it is cheaper than carrying rations. But yes, ETV.
My primary* argument for blood transcription is consuming my enemies to learn/gain their strength. There is no ETV though, it has been ruled as cannibalism and evil.
It's a Western taboo. PFS tends to be kind of sensitive to Western taboos, so Your Mileage May Vary.No, it isn't.Yes, it is. I may have been unclear.
Cannibalism has been a taboo in most societies across the globe across most of history. It is only rare outliers that permit it.It is indeed a taboo to multiple cultures. Western (that is to say, European-originating) cultures are the ones that I am talking about. Its existence as a taboo in Aboriginal Australian cultures is not of equal concern to its existence as a taboo in Western cultures when it comes to Pathfinder's "ew gross" morality loopholes. Even if Western cultures were the sole exception, the loopholes would most likely remain (which is why a paladin falls for leaving the bathroom door open, even though many non-American cultures have no problem with such behavior).So what about Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern, African, Native American, Latin American, and South American cultures? I assume you arent wanting to lump them into a group as being ok with canabalism, since its a 'European' taboo, but that seems to be close to what you are unintentionally (Im sure) doing.
Perhaps you want to clarify again? :P
Not really. When people choose to misread my posts, I don't feel a massive compunction to clarify anything. Everything you just claimed I said is directly contradicted in the post you quoted. :)
Anyhoo, back on topic, let me drop a complicating factor into this: It's not okay for a human to eat a human or behir or whatever. Is it okay to let your animal companion eat a human or sentient creature? How about your eidolon or familiar? ;D
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No one roleplays eating trail rations, so why would you roleplay eating sentient beings?
The starvation section say you require 1 lb of food per day as a medium character, or you starve. Starvation has listed effects. That is a game mechanic requirement, not role playing.
Role playing would be describing your enjoyment of the food.
As for Cannibalism, EVIL actions matter to lots of characters in the game, and the act of humans eating humans is both something that they may be unaware of and something that most spells can't counter or detect. Purify food and Drink, in example, doesn't change what kind of meat it is made out of.
Developer
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Which makes the whole Barbarian Eat Em UP Archetype from Occult Adventures that is allowed all the more weirder and kind of scares me that they don't actually bother to read the material that they allow.
Interestingly, we do read and review the material quite closely, and over the past 6+ months, we have included numerous venture-officers in the process to help us consider new material from additional angles.
Regarding the flesheater barbarian archetype, you may be surpised to learn that I already commented on the reasoning for its legality. If you have questions about whether I have already commented publicly about why a character option is or is not legal, you need only ask.
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You gotta admit, guys, that's a much better response to hope for than, "Hey, that's a good point about the flesheater. Aaaaaand it's gone."
Venture-Agent, Florida—Longwood
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The starvation section say you require 1 lb of food per day as a medium character, or you starve. Starvation has listed effects. That is a game mechanic requirement, not role playing.
Most scenarios take place in one day without resting or anything. Very few adventures take place over multiple days where rations are required.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Which makes the whole Barbarian Eat Em UP Archetype from Occult Adventures that is allowed all the more weirder and kind of scares me that they don't actually bother to read the material that they allow.
Interestingly, we do read and review the material quite closely, and over the past 6+ months, we have included numerous venture-officers in the process to help us consider new material from additional angles.
If you have questions about whether I have already commented publicly about why a character option is or is not legal, you need only ask.
Its less legality because for the most part I don't find that big of deal but more the whole rules interactions with PFS and the fact that the rules are sometimes nonexistent. The last part I find utterly frustrating because my newest PFS character is literally one that needs house rules that don't exist. Its not even subtle about it either as the house rule is how do you drain out copious amounts of blood out of a person without killing them.
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This campaign accommodates many different types of characters, but it can't possibly provide for every character. No campaign can.
If your character needs house rules to work properly, that should be a sign that it isn't a good fit for the campaign. That's ok. It's not a statement about your character or the campaign. Only about the fit.
The good news is that PFS is an amazing way to network with other gamers who have similar interests as you. :)
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While I can't speak for PFS, I can speak for 'traditional fantasy' and that is that with different humanoid races, usually the definition of cannibalism is expanded a bit. How much is it expanded? That's really up to the author/GM.
In my games I definite cannibalism as sentient humanoid, monstrous humanoid races, and giants. Reefclaws? Sure, that's not cannibalism. Troll liver? Technically it's cannibalism, yeah. The thing is though, I also don't necessarily apply the 'evil' aspect the same. Your own race definitely. Another of the same category as you? Definitely. A human eating the delicacy of troll liver? That's the grey area. Trolls will definitely object. Druids might object. But it actually being evil? FOr the most part not.
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Its less legality because for the most part I don't find that big of deal but more the whole rules interactions with PFS and the fact that the rules are sometimes nonexistent. The last part I find utterly frustrating because my newest PFS character is literally one that needs house rules that don't exist. Its not even subtle about it either as the house rule is how do you drain out copious amounts of blood out of a person without killing them.Which makes the whole Barbarian Eat Em UP Archetype from Occult Adventures that is allowed all the more weirder and kind of scares me that they don't actually bother to read the material that they allow.
Interestingly, we do read and review the material quite closely, and over the past 6+ months, we have included numerous venture-officers in the process to help us consider new material from additional angles.
If you have questions about whether I have already commented publicly about why a character option is or is not legal, you need only ask.
Use a stirge, one point of Con damage, then kill it to get the blood it drained.
Apply Lesser Restoration to your party member.All good.
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Dragonhide Armor isn't illegal, you just need a Chronicle Sheet with it on there. There are one or two scenarios where you can get it. I think the restriction on it has more to do with availability more than it being evil to dragons or something.
As for cannibalism, I'm fairly certain eating another humanoid in general would be "cannibalism" in my book even if it isn't traditional consumption of the same species. I would say eating anything intelligent would still be evil if not cannibalism.
I remember GMing a game not too long ago where it came up. This person was brand new and playing the pregen Barbarian and they kept trying to cut off and eat fingers of other humans (fallen Pathfinders no less). I was like "Yeaahhh no, cannibalism is evil and not allowed." Then later they killed some derros and tried to do the same thing insisting it wasn't cannibalism because they weren't humans. I still didn't allow it then.
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Dragonhide Armor isn't illegal, you just need a Chronicle Sheet with it on there. There are one or two scenarios where you can get it. I think the restriction on it has more to do with availability more than it being evil to dragons or something.
Close. Dragonhide is purchasable provided you have the required fame to purchase it. Dragonhide is only excluded from the list of special materials that are Always Available.
As for cannibalism, I'm fairly certain eating another humanoid in general would be "cannibalism" in my book even if it isn't traditional consumption of the same species. I would say eating anything intelligent would still be evil if not cannibalism.
So are Kobolds still on the menu?
... or are they still only for target practice?
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We canonically taste very bad.
We canonically taste very bad.
Really? It must be your living conditions.
Target practice it is then.
Kobolds are simply too small for target practice. We're skin and bones. Minus the skin.