What the title says. We've just hit level twelve after a battle with some guecubu and a few of us have been hit with their curse. As a twelfth level wizard I gain a new fifth level and sixth level spell slot. Can I now prepare break enchantment in those slots without resting?
Should've had a scroll handy haha.
Up to your game master. For many editions, leveling up was an activity that took some time, so you'd typically do it between adventures, and that's still as far as I can tell the standard assumption (this is how it's done in PFS, for example) and the issue therefore doesn't arise.
In computer RPGs, of course, you can often level up even in the middle of combat, between rounds.
Were this my table, my answer would be "no." If nothing else, wizards need to prepare their spells from a spellbook, and they therefore need to have a chance to put the spell into a spellbook, so it would take at least the equivalent of a "long rest" to do so.
I don't know of any hard and fast rules for when you can level. By far the majority of GMs I have played with have only had leveling happen after an adventure and failing that, they would at least only have it done after a rest period or something similar.
That said, if your GM had you level in the middle of an adventure and the fighter get to use their new BAB and feats right away then I see no reason why you couldn't use you spell slots.
I would think that you immediately get the spell slots (so, for example, you could use them for Arcane Blast without resting,) but I don't think the spells just magically appear in your spellbook. I think it's assumed you spend time adding the spell to your spellbook.
Here's what the rules say:
Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast.
A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook).
Time: The process takes 1 hour per spell level. Cantrips (0 levels spells) take 30 minutes to record.
If you treat the free spells as an "Aha!" moment, you could possibly waive the "1 hour studying the spell", but I think you would still have to take the 1 hour/spell level to copy it into your spellbook, and then another 15 minutes to prepare it.
The rules have 2 things to say about leveling up (well they have many things to say, but 2 things seem relevant). They say that you typically should be awarded experience at the end of game sessions, so that you don't have awkward problems like wizards leveling up in the middle of combat encounters. The next thing I recall is the rules saying that there is an optional system for training between levels. In other words, the PCs don't just level up immediately, but go into a training session for a week or two.
If the GM followed either of those rules, you would know, and it would be clear you need downtime to level up. If the GM is not following those rules, then you have crossed over to a new level right in the middle of things (which is what it appears, based upon the original post) and now you have all the things of the new level. You can spend 15 minutes to put a spell into your new spell slot, and keep going.
Oh! The rules have 1 other relevant thing to say. It is assumed you are researching new spells during the course of the game, so that the new spells you receive appear immediately upon level up. So, before you leveled up, you were working on your 2 new spells, and now you should have them available.
The rules have 2 things to say about leveling up (well they have many things to say, but 2 things seem relevant). They say that you typically should be awarded experience at the end of game sessions, so that you don't have awkward problems like wizards leveling up in the middle of combat encounters. The next thing I recall is the rules saying that there is an optional system for training between levels. In other words, the PCs don't just level up immediately, but go into a training session for a week or two.
If the GM followed either of those rules, you would know, and it would be clear you need downtime to level up. If the GM is not following those rules, then you have crossed over to a new level right in the middle of things (which is what it appears, based upon the original post) and now you have all the things of the new level. You can spend 15 minutes to put a spell into your new spell slot, and keep going.
Oh! The rules have 1 other relevant thing to say. It is assumed you are researching new spells during the course of the game, so that the new spells you receive appear immediately upon level up. So, before you leveled up, you were working on your 2 new spells, and now you should have them available.
Nothing in the last two paragraphs is actually supported by the rules. Don't confuse silence with support.
Would your answer be different if its a spell I already know?
I'd have to consider it further; probably not, though.
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So what's the question? You've got confirmation that it works already even if you are doing lots of wild stuff, and you're assuring us that you're far below that threshold. If it works for preparing completely new spells, then it certainly works for preparing completely old spells.
Nothing in the last two paragraphs is actually supported by the rules. Don't confuse silence with support.
Yes it is.
Nothing in the last two paragraphs is actually supported by the rules. Don't confuse silence with support.Yes it is.
[citation needed].
Personally I run my games that you need to rest, in game, in order to level up. Otherwise silly things like this come into play.
I would say the real answer is "ask your GM".
As a twelfth level wizard I...
Should've had a scroll handy haha.
Of course you should have -- you're a wizard, vorpaljesus! Being prepared "for just such an occasion" is what separates the skilled wizard from those other, lesser arcane practitioners. ;) Alas, always easier to figure that out after the fact...
More seriously, my interpretation is that you cannot use those slots, because when you last rested and replenished your spell slots for the day, you did not have those slots to refresh. Your caster level is now 12 for spell effects, spell penetration, and so on. Your BAB has improved and your saving throws. However, you do not have any more spell slots because you did not have them when you last rested.
I would need to check closely with the rules to make sure this is correct.
To avoid these sorts of questions, I usually make it a house rule not to allow the level for character to change until they have rested. That is a house rule, though, and not RAW. There is certainly a dramatic tradition of heroes pushing through to new talents while under pressure in a crisis, so I fully support the game master that wants to use that trope in play as well.
As usual, the Magic (not Spells) chapter seems to have the answer. Reading the rules for preparing spells, it seems clear to me that the spell slots, filled with prepared spells or left open for later preparation, are established when you prepare spells. A sudden level-up, or permanent Int gain, affects your next spell preparation.
You can spend 15 minutes to prepare a spell in an open spell slot, which these would be if your GM decides that they are available to you immediately. So ask her and go with what she says.
[citation needed]
I wish you had done that first, rather than start with something antagonistic and untrue, but oh well. Citations incoming.
You said that nothing in my last 2 paragraphs is supported by any rules text. Let's go through what I wrote.
If the GM followed either of those rules, you would know, and it would be clear you need downtime to level up.
So, this part is not even a rule, it's just observation: if the GM implemented the optional training rules, you would know it via simply interacting with that GM and hearing what he has to say on the matter. That's either a thing the GM has in the game or not, and the player would know that unless he/she has impaired eyesight/hearing/brain function. So, I stand by this part so far. Let's try more.
If the GM is not following those rules, then you have crossed over to a new level right in the middle of things (which is what it appears, based upon the original post)
This again is observation. How did he award the XP? According to OP, the XP was simply given out with no extra rules at the end of the session, and the XP was enough to level him up. The OP wrote that this is how it happened, so I stand by my assertion that this is how it happened.
now you have all the things of the new level.
So I asserted that he has the stuff of his new level. That's supported by text already quoted here in this topic. I'll re-quote it:
A character advances in level as soon as he earns enough experience points to do so
...right in the character advancement section of the rules. I suppose you could reject the bolded words as meaning something other than what they appear to mean, but I take them at face value and I think I'm OK to do that. I think it's reasonable to stand by that text and in absence of house-rules, I expect games to hold to it. (Especially since we're in a rules forum that should follow the printed text.) Next, I wrote:
You can spend 15 minutes to put a spell into your new spell slot, and keep going.
If the character has actually advanced in level, then all the stuff of that level is available. That's the byproduct of advancing in level. He has a slot. The rules say with 15 minutes he can fill it. That rule is here:
During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.
So the rules allow wizard to fill empty slots with 15 minutes of work. He got XP. The XP leveled him up. The level up happens as soon as he received the XP. So he has a new level, which confers a new slot. By the rules, it can be filled with 15 minutes of work. OK. We're down to the last quote of my text:
Oh! The rules have 1 other relevant thing to say. It is assumed you are researching new spells during the course of the game, so that the new spells you receive appear immediately upon level up. So, before you leveled up, you were working on your 2 new spells, and now you should have them available.
Well, that's actually almost word-for-word from some of the rules text. It's me paraphrasing, but pretty damn close to what's in the books. Here, from the wizard class text:
Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast.
The bolded part is almost a perfect match for what I wrote. But let's do more. Let's see how he gains these new spells:
Materials and Costs: The cost for writing a new spell into a spellbook depends on the level of the spell, as noted on Table: Spell Level and Writing Costs. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for spells he gains for free at each new level.
So it appears that the rules explicitly state that there is no time involved in gaining these spells, presumably because the rules also say that the wizard did all the research between adventures, but even if that's not the reason why it happens, it doesn't change the fact that does happen, and it's free and has zero time cost.
So, we went through every line of my 2 paragraphs that you said were completely unsupported, and I defended every line. I stand by all of it. I wish the OP well in leveling up. Have fun.
[citation needed]I wish you had done that first, rather than start with something antagonistic and untrue, but oh well.
Antagonistic, perhaps. But nothing in your citations actually supports the claim that you can use abilities gained upon advancing level immediately upon advancing, and there's direct rules support stating, for example, that you get two new spells "to add to his spellbook," not already in his spellbook. Similarly, if you take the Improved Familiar feat, you do not immediately get the improved familiar, but the ability to select an improved familiar,.... which takes time.
So I stand by my statement as well.
You could use the magic of the dices to determine your success.
Hmm. This:
nothing in your citations actually supports the claim that you can use abilities gained upon advancing level immediately upon advancing
and this:
A character advances in level as soon as he earns enough experience points to do so
...don't add up for me. If being that level doesn't mean you can use the powers of that level, then I don't know what to say to you. It's like having a debate where you don't agree that English is real and words have no meaning. I don't know how to interact with that.
Antagonistic, perhaps.
It's disappointing that you would bring that negative approach into the forums, but I'm not in charge of you. I guess, good luck with your games and have fun. I'm dropping out of this conversation.
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Preparing Wizard Spells
A wizard's level limits the number of spells he can prepare and cast. His high Intelligence score might allow him to prepare a few extra spells. He can prepare the same spell more than once, but each preparation counts as one spell toward his daily limit. To prepare a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell's level.
Rest: To prepare his daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but he must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If his rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time he has to rest in order to clear his mind, and he must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing his spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.
...
Spell Selection and Preparation: Until he prepares spells from his spellbook, the only spells a wizard has available to cast are the ones that he already had prepared from the previous day and has not yet used. During the study period, he chooses which spells to prepare. If a wizard already has spells prepared (from the previous day) that he has not cast, she can abandon some or all of them to make room for new spells.
When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots.è/b] He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.
so:
1) a wizard need 8 hour of rest to prepare his spell slots.2) he can leave some of those spell slots open.
3) he can fill the spell slot he left open and only those spell slots with new spells during the day.
The spell slots he received increasing his level aren't prepared so he can't fill them until he rest.
By RAW, a prepared caster (such as a wizard) would gain the new slots, but treats them like unused/open slots that then need to be prepared (15 minutes per slot, subject to normal preparation rules). Spontaneous casters just get the slots and can use them immediately. The relevant rulebook sections have already been quoted many times above, so I don't feel the need to repeat them, except for the following quote.
When adding new levels of an existing class or adding levels of a new class (see Multiclassing, below), make sure to take the following steps in order. First, select your new class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level. Third, integrate all of the level's class abilities and then roll for additional hit points.
Spell slots are class abilities tied to a level, so you certainly get them as part of leveling up. Since it is not specified in what state the slots come in, there can be room for interpretation/table variation on that, however I believe that the "default" state for a spell slot is that the slot is unused, so that's how you'd get them.
Diverging from RAW, how I play it is that you level up immediately upon reaching the XP (I hand out XP at the end of the session so you level up between sessions), no rest required. However rest is required to make use of any new spell slots you may have gained, even if you are a spontaneous caster. In effect, you gain the new spell slots immediately upon leveling, but they are gained in an exhausted/spent state, so 8 hours of rest are needed in order to actually make use of them.
I'd also likely break that rule when it makes sense to, and give players access to new spell slots immediately if they're in a situation where the extra resources make what is coming up more climactic (e.g. if they level up right before fighting a boss encounter that they cannot feasibly rest before, the tiny amount of resource replenishment gained by the new spell slots lets me tweak the encounter to be hopefully more memorable).
So the rules allow wizard to fill empty slots with 15 minutes of work. He got XP. The XP leveled him up. The level up happens as soon as he received the XP. So he has a new level, which confers a new slot. By the rules, it can be filled with 15 minutes of work. OK.
Guy, if you're going to be this antagonistic, you need to be better. Go re-read the magic chapter.