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This weekend I will start my first session of Kingmaker with some friends. I have done a lot of research into the campaign setting and book 1 so far and have started branching out into the forum for ideas and suggestions. The problem is, there is of information. Too much for me to sift through even if I moved it back a month.
So I am asking for help. Anyone got any suggestions on where to look first. And mean specific things, not general ideas to keep in mind when running it. I get that Nyrissa needs to be foreshadowed, that NPC's need to be fleshed out. I want to know how some of you have done that.
For reference I am relatively new to DMing but have been a player for a while. I know this is one of the worst AP's to try and start with but it is just so interesting I wanted to give it a shot. I also recently discovered the usefulness of OneNote in keeping campaign notes organized so that has increased my confidence. The players are all experienced as well. We could only find 3 people who could show up consistently so I allowed them to use gestalt rules to increase versatility and power.
Also the stickied threads at the top of the kingmaker forum by tdewitt274...all the links appear to be broken. I get the error message: "You have made too many requests for the same page too quickly. Please wait a minute before trying again."
If you want specifics, maybe peruse some folks' campaign logs? There's a thread of links to such here in this forum (not stickied). Here is my campaign. My group is wrapping up book 2 currently. The post-mortems on book 1 and book 2 might be of the most use to you, as I try to cover what worked, what didn't, and what I changed.
Since you're a new DM, I would beware trying to do too much, which is a constant temptation in a wide-open setting like this. I would recommend focusing on the main plot while following the players' lead. Which means don't go introducing whole new casts of characters and subplots and whatnot (Redcelt's Game of Thrones in Brevoy) unless that's what your players really want. There's already a lot to juggle and track without making it harder on yourself.
Thanks for the timely feedback. I had some ideas for the opening at Restov with some influence from another DM's opening here on the boards. The game never took off but it started spectacularly. But it seems a little above me. So I might just show off the Iron Wraiths and other big profile members heading into the Stolen Lands. One idea I read was to make them seem stunningly powerful and have a body or two show up, torn to shreds, to warn them not to go further off the map rather than a nasty animal deus ex machina.
I think I'll just focus on giving every NPC some kind of personality and see what happens. Add a few tidbits here and there but keep mostly with the story. I read some of Orthos campaign journal and got a little too excited. Need to temper it a little.
I ran two players through Kingmaker using gestalt characters. They had a blast, but it threw the CRs of most encounters off considerably. Some encounters were too easy, some were unexpectedly tough.
Running a party of 3 through Kingmaker seems like it could work without gestalt characters, simply by adding one or two NPCs. In fact, once you're into Book 2 and the kingdom-building is underway, it starts to seem ridiculous that the party leaves Kesten or Akiros at home all the time.
An alternative might be granting one or more PCs the Leadership feat for free. But if you're a new GM, Leadership might be even more disruptive to your encounter design than gestalt characters would be. Tons of fun for your players though.
If you go ahead with a gestalt party, pay close attention to your players' tactics, and try to anticipate what sorts of encounters are likely to give them extra trouble, so you can tweak them in advance. It's comparatively easy to beef up an unexpectedly easy encounter halfway through (Surprise! Two more bandits!), but if an encounter turns out to be too tough, and you find yourself facing a disaster within the first few rounds, it's a lot trickier to make adjustments on the fly.
Thanks for the ideas pennywit. I read through spring feast and thought it a fantastic idea. The Siege at Oleg's through me off. I thought it was the Stag Lord that was going to attack, not the mites. But I took two things from that. An idea to make the Stag Lord less alcoholic and more level-headed. Maybe have him try and recruit the two forces and having all three attack if the PC's dick around too much. Thinking about pulling from the NPC's who became MVP's. And also that I need to keep the creatures fluid. The world needs to react to the PC's
I am not great at ad-libbing so the variability of encounter difficulty is a concern. I thought about creating a healer NPC adventurer, since no one picked a healing class, that was actually a spy for one of the northern houses. But that's just more complexity. Le sigh. One game at a time I suppose.
I actually wanted to play a little with the Six River Freedoms. After taking out Kressle and the crew he shows up at Oleg's himself and fires a single arrow at the door. Tied to it is a list of the Six River Freedoms with the last circled. You Have What You Hold. He lays down the challenge and starts actively working the the mites and kobolds to put together a small army. Maybe have them discover Akiros at one and Dovan at the other, either laying waste to them or being diplomatic. Or, if they have good relations with either, try and destroy it. Not sure yet. But as cunning as he seems, the Stag Lord still has the weakness for Alcohol and they can still use that for infiltration. Only thing is they have to join him for the festivities and not break cover.
Oleg's is on the edge of Brevoy, and Brevoy is not in the River Kingdoms.
Oleg might well look at the Six River Freedoms and say, "What the hell is this crap?".
Settle down guys. There are a hundred little kingdoms in the River Kingdoms area, several large ones surrounding it, each with their own problems, and a much bigger villian who has her eye on the place from a world that is chaos incarnate. Too much politics. Lets wait until after the PC's, and me, aren't so wet behind the ears. Outlaw Council is going to be a nightmare.
KM is a game of politics, nearly every encounter can turn political. Some players will start looking at the political side first, then the combat strategy.
It will help a great deal to have your players decide what role/position in the Kingdom they want/will to fill early on.
Knowing that your adventuring party consists of the Ruler, the General, and the High Priest is different than the Ruler, the Spymaster, and the Executioner. There are some encounters that could be handled differently depending on the make up of the party.
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KM is a game of politics, nearly every encounter can turn political.
That might be going a bit far... *looks at Tuskgutter encounter*
Many a new DM has gotten carried away and tried to do too much, which usually results in the campaign crashing and burning. If you haven't already, you should talk with your players and make sure you're all on the same page: what do they expect from the campaign, what do you expect, that sort of thing. Unspoken, mis-matched expectations are another good campaign ender.
In the spirit of providing a more living world, it's good to think of how different groups will react to the PCs' decisions. Consider the PCs' likely actions and consider the likely outcomes. Book 1 starts with the PCs protecting Oleg's from an attack. If word gets back to the Thorn River camp, they go on alert and beef up their numbers (this is in the text). Now, what happens when the Thorn River camp gets knocked over? Does word get back to the bandit fort? If not, how long before they discover what happened? What happens once they know their northern base was wiped out? How long does it take them to respond? And how often do they change the fort's pass phrase, if ever, and will they do so once they know someone's after them?
You don't want to plan too far in advance, or the PCs' actions will render your work moot. But it's good to be prepared for events that you think could happen in the next session.
IMC, the bandits laid an ambush for the PCs at the Thorn River crossing, led by a new and disposable bandit lieutenant. Later still, Dovan and Auchs led an attack on Oleg's while the group was away. If my party hadn't hit the fort when they did, I was going to send the Stag Lord himself after them. And that's an ambush that probably would not have gone very well for them...
KM is a game of politics, nearly every encounter can turn political.
That might be going a bit far... *looks at Tuskgutter encounter*
IOC our boar-riding halfling paladin wanted to capture & tame Tuskgutter so he could breed more monster-boars and create a monster-boar-mounted halfling cavalry.
We ended up killing the monster-boar and turning Tuskgutter's Rock into a monument.
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Politics aside, Spatula's right on account.
READ through all 6 parts so that you are familiar with what's coming.
Definately talk with your players & find out what they are planning on building, what roles they want, what direction are they going to take their Kingdom. That way you can plan for things that will interest them and avoid those they're not interested in.
Also, don't forget that many enemies can be converted into useful Kingdom NPCs or allies, so give them a chance to surrender or flee when neccessary.
I ran kingmaker and I have two key suggestions.
The first is to flesh out the individual hex encounters. If it's going to be roleplay great, if it's going to combat try and extend them into a couple of encounters. The one fight per day I find becomes a real issue if you want to enjoy the exploration.
There are plenty of locations that don't require this, and some of the tougher encounters may not need it. Nevertheless one encounter a day really risks making it very difficult for the DM - particularly from book 2 onwards.
The second piece of advice is to run the kingdom building rules beneath the surface. Let the players make the decisions and see the benefits but don't hand over the campaign rules and see this is the game were playing guys. The system is very easy to break and "winning" the campaign rules game will not take you in the direction the path needs you take. Essentially winning involves a small kingdom with big cities, will the path expects you to push your boarders. I'm not saying some groups won't enjoy tinkering with the rules but I really regretted laying it all out. Far better to work the dice rolls etc yourself.
Just my thoughts, learned the hard way - however it turned into a real corker of a campaign once I got the hang of it.
Some more things that might help you during the first module, as a relatively new DM:
- Remember that random encounters don't have to be combats. Rolling 1d4 Trolls can TPK a low-level party, but coming across the tracks of 1d4 troll gives the party pause to realise what sorts of dangers are out there. On that note, I recently discovered this little gem: what are those wandering monsters up to?.
- Reach a consensus with your group up-front how much bookkeeping everyone is happy with. Will you require the players to count arrows? Rations? Animal feed? The party gets horses pretty much from the get-go, so they can carry a very large amount of mundane supplies in saddle bags; once they have a bit of loot, they can afford to keep those saddle bags pretty full, too. You'll want to strike a balance between boring accounting on the one hand and presenting a feeling of being cut off from civilization and surviving off the land on the other. That balance point will be different for different groups (and will change over time as they level up, too). One option, rather than having it as an always-present bookkeeping overhead, is to generally hand-wave the accounting, but occasionally make it the focus of play. The party is snowed in (the AP begins on the first day of spring, so the weather is still pretty cold), or they lose some saddle bags as a consequence of failing checks when crossing a river, or the person on watch fails their Perception check and wild animals get into their supplies during the night, and they need to eke out their remaining supplies until they can make it back to civilization (and/or the character(s) who have invested in Survival can feed everyone and feel good about their skill investment).
- With encounter F, it makes the Narlmarches more mysterious if you can delay the reveal of who is behind the pranks as long as possible. Note that as written, *everyone* in the party has to pass the diplomacy check before the pranksters reveal themselves... the party's max-Diplomacy Charisma monkey passing the check just means they stop being the target for pranks, but everyone else in the party is still fair game and the competition will continue. Feel free to drop the frequency of pranks if it gets too much, but also check out Ooh Those Wascawwy Fey for ideas to keep it going (although some of the suggestions rely on spells the fey don't actually have).
- Read the descriptions of the rivers of the Greenbelt on page 55, and incorporate the descriptions when the players run across them. Remember that crossing rivers can be a significant challenge for low-level parties - they should feel like real barriers, meaning the players might consider travelling up- or down-river to find a ford or bridge rather than just jumping in to cross them. Eventually the players will be able to easily bypass such obstacles, and making them memorable at low levels will make that power all the more enjoyable.
- Have a printed calendar of the current month (like the ones posted here) to scribble on. As your players move around and explore, you can easily tally hours of the day and mark off days to track time. You can write in scripted events ahead of time, like when Thorn River camp goes on high alert, when the password at the fort changes etc. You can also add notes during play or between sessions with the consequences of the players' actions... If they take out Thorn River Camp, say, you might make a note a fortnight later saying "Stag Lord sends search party", or when they report some success at Oleg's you can note down "reward for such-and-such quest arrives from Restov" a week later to reflect that distance and time back to civilization. You can use it to prep other things too - pre-rolled day and night wandering encounters (or at least whether they occur), pre-rolled weather, note which day the party's rations will run out if they don't resupply etc.
Rivers, I had forgotten how much of a barrier they were.
Most were difficult to get the entire party across intact, we always ended up exploring partial hexes, ie the north banks until we coukd find a bridge or ford where we could cross.
I think every PC suffered being washed downstream at least once, mounts and pack horses too. One PC even drowned, but no mounts did, just from horrible swim checks trying to get across a river.
We also had encounters occasionally mid-crossing! Giant eels being the GMs favorite riverine encounter, every river and lake has its own eel. Fanged eels, crested eels, silvery eels, mud eels, whiskered eels, striped eels, rainbow eels, and now in Lake Hooktongue, the screeching eels!
Then there are the turtles, giant fish, and aquatic humanoids.
We learned to swim.
Horses, we lost a small herd of horses to encounters while exploring.
We did a lot of walking too.
Gauge the players. Plan ahead. Think about consequences. Plan pranks. Weather. Horses. Got it...sort of.
Oh and have fun.
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Everyone having fun (players and GM) is definitely an important thing to aim for, yes. :)
Here are some more threads that might be of interest or use to you:
A similar thread to this one, where a GM about to start Kingmaker asked for people's opinions of the best community creations.
An old thread with ideas for number of expansions or additional encounters, mostly for the first module. There's plenty to do in the actual written module, but you might want to browse the thread for ideas.
Also the stickied threads at the top of the kingmaker forum by tdewitt274...all the links appear to be broken.
Yes, the forum software has been changed since those posts were made. I believe they just linked to the same stickies you can still see at the top of this forum though.
Since you mention it, you've probably already read through The Stolen Land's sticky. If you haven't, at least skim it for errata that the community spotted (as well as other clarifications of confusing things), if you have the time. I don't think there's anything too glaring in The Stolen Lands, but some of the later modules have some doozies (like omitting the tens column from some creature's attacks, so instead of +11 to hit they have +1 listed in the module for example).
In case it's of any use to you, I've written a javascript-based mapping "app" for Kingmaker which we use in our game. We have it running in a browser on a tablet in the middle of the table, so everyone sitting at the table can see the map and update it as the players explore and learn of locations. The icons on the left can be dragged on to mark places on the map, and the white hexes can be clicked/tapped to remove them, revealing the Greenbelt map underneath (and revealed hexes can be covered up in case you reveal something accidentally). The menu allows you to customise things like the map image and the icons, switch between different campaigns or import/export the current map data as plain text so you can copy/paste it into a document to move the map between different devices and to have a backup saved somewhere.
Here's a reasonable initial state you could import to get going. Copy and paste it (replacing whatever is already there) into the "import/export" dialogue accessible from the menu and hit the "import" button.
Name:Zayne's Kingmaker
explored:14_0|12_0|10_0|8_0|9_1|
halfHex:false
hexHeight:209.83334554036458
hexWidth:183.28571428571428
iconSnap:{"tick.png":[75.48294067382812,135.4829444885254]}
iconZoom:{}
mapMaxStraight:14
mapMaxZigzag:10
mapOffsetX:2
mapOffsetY:-39
mapSrc:The_Greenbelt.jpg
markers:894,130,0,icon_building.png,above,Oleg's Trading Post |1202,87,-15,icon_none.png,above,South Rostland Road
party:1041,124
version:2
verticalHexes:false
Neat map. I could use that. But RL has pushed the start date back considerably. That means I have a lot more time to look over these suggestions and read deeper into the campaign. Thanks for the help.
You'll want the KM Map Folio, dead tree copies may not be available anymore, but you can print out copies of the 4 poster maps with the PDF, or just the areas that you need.
The Map Folio maps show each 1/4 of the Stolen Lands with the hex grid but without any of the encounter locations.
Draft prints on parchment can look really good to start with, and you can have the players draw whatever they want. All you'll need to do is point where they are. Just be sure to print it out at a big enough scale that someone can write a lot of stuff in each hex, or about 2"-3" across.
I also keep an e-map of all 4 combined maps with every little thing added that we've found, named, or built. Plus each town. Just use a copy of a Folio map and draw on it in any program like Paintbrush, Paint.net(free). You can do whatever amount of detail you want.
Same thing with the city grid maps and building icons. For a cheap city map building kit, just copy/paste a bunch of building icons like postage stamps. 2 sheets of card stock can cover most of the buildings you'll need for a dozen Districts. Print the Districts 1 per sheet on card stock, centered width-wise, you can use any space above or below for stats & information. Use gluestick or double-sided tape on the building icons.
But let the players do the mapping, it will make your life much easier.
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If you don't have alot of time to doesn't reading the campaign books and you want to become familiar with the adventure, I would suggest checking out Chronicles Pathfinder Podcast. It is available for free on iTunes and easy to find elsewhere with some Google-fu. They cover everything you need to know, things you didn't know you needed to know, and they talk to the authors of the adventures to get you the inside scoop on what they were thinking as well as what was cut from the AP to fit word count. I can't recommend them enough. Other than that, sit down and read the books from start to finish.
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So I am asking for help. Anyone got any suggestions on where to look first. And mean specific things, not general ideas to keep in mind when running it. I get that Nyrissa needs to be foreshadowed,
Drelev and Irovetti (if you care to use him) need to be foreshadowed and presented in advance too. "Suddenly there are foes right on your border who somehow have cooler toys than you despite being your loser counterparts" is not a pronouncement I'd care to make to my players. Drelev in particular can be their long-standing rival.
that NPC's need to be fleshed out. I want to know how some of you have done that.
(1)Give Nyrissa a bigger historical presense. She appears to be an outside context villain coming out of nowhere because, well, she largely is. In my setting, the Green Queen was a legendary figure of three thousands years ago, who ruled most of the continent with ironwood fist. She got largely forgotten by the time of PCs, because three thousands years is a lot of time, but one still could find some information by looking at old legends or consulting various immortal beings.
(2)Make certain fey who appear early in the AP, like the Dancing Lady, her worshippers, believing that one day Nyrissa will return and reestablish the rule of fey over mortals. Make certain that PCs are aware about the fact that Greenbelt still has a connection to the First World/whatever Faerie is called now, and that connection, albeit nearly inactive at the moment, can grow stronger later.
(3)If your players are not averse to mysterious NPCs appearing to be mysterious, one of Nyrissa's fey enemies/jilted lovers might appear before PCs once those start gaining fame, to drop hints about the larget picture and groom PC for the future confrontation.
Not sure if OP is still checking or not, but figure I'd add my 2 coppers as well. If nothing else, it will be good for others. :)
1. If you are new to GM'ing, I would seriously advise you reconsider letting your players run gestalt characters. As previously mentioned, gestalt characters, especially when the party is only one person down from a standard, can really mess with encounter balance. Instead, I would suggest giving them an NPC to join the party. If the party doesn't have a healer, this is particularly handy as they can be relatively easy to run. I would have the GM make the NPC, but hand it to the players to run. This avoids the DMPC problem while still covering the party's bases. Just a final note, make it clear to the party that the NPC considers him/herself a full fledged party member. They are not merely cannon fodder or a heal bot. If the party wants to screw them out of treasure for instance, the NPC can walk away. Sure, the players might be running the NPC in combat, but an NPC is still, ultimately, controlled by the GM.
2. If you are not real confident in your ad-libbing skills, try to be as prepared as possible. For me, I am terrible at coming up with names (both place names and NPC names). A trick I found really useful was to simply create a list of names (whether NPC, Place, Tavern, etc.) ahead of time and then when the need arises to use one, you just grab the next name off the list, make a note of who/what got it, and then cross it off. For NPCs, this can get even more detailed by dividing it into race and gender, so you don't end up with Bob the Elf. Basically, the one guarantee I have found with my players is that if I plan for a particular NPC to be really involved with the party, and give her a rich background, etc., the party won't care and will completely disregard. But random guard on a random street corner will suddenly become the target of their desires. Having that list of names ahead of time can make it seem as though you have planned everything out.
3. Keep a campaign log. Even better, try to get your players to keep it/post it where everyone can see it. If your players keep it, it will a) give you an idea of how invested they are, and b) give you clues as to what they are finding most interesting. Regardless though, a campaign log can be great for keeping track of random bits of information, names, etc. Personally, if you have a wiki, its even better. I like Obsidian Portal, but there are plenty of options out there.
4. For Nyrissa, there are a lot of good suggestions for foreshadowing her. Keep in mind, the party might be able to learn tidbits about her along the way through Knowledge checks as well as they run across little clues. I also read somewhere on here (can't recall where) that a GM was tying a lot of the foreshadowing to specific items. For instance, when a PC puts on the Stag Lord's helm, he gets a glimpse of a beautiful woman who seems suitably impressed. I'm planning on going a step further in my campaign. The Helm allows Nyrissa to communicate with the wearer, and even to scry/cast through it. I plan to have her try to ensnare the PC that puts in on. She starts out flattering and making simple suggestions (that even seem like good ideas). Meanwhile, her influence grows stronger with each passing week. With the right player (one who doesn't overly metagame) you can even have the PC develop a strong desire to never remove the helm (obviously Nyrissa wants to keep tabs on the party). I would have to check the spell lists again, but I imagine this is likely bending the rules more than a little, but as the GM, you can usually get away with this for story purposes. The only real catch is that you should allow for a mechanism to eventually remove the helm of course. I'm planning on making it a bit more difficult than a simple Remove Curse spell, but you get the idea.
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A trick I found really useful was to simply create a list of names (whether NPC, Place, Tavern, etc.) ahead of time
+1 to having a list of names on hand if you're not good at making them up on the spot - I did the same thing.
I also ended up making some "random bandit details" tables, after my PCs started capturing and attempting to redeem every unnamed bandit in the Stolen Lands. I've posted them before, but here they are again if they're of interest.
Random physical trait: roll d12
1. Big nose/ears/feet
2. Scarred
3. Bald or very hairy
4. Short or tall
5. Clumsy or dexterous
6. Fat or thin
7. Notably young or old
8. Bad eyes or striking eyes
9. Tattoos
10. Missing limb/finger/eye
11. Brawny or scrawny
12. Smelly or very clean/neat
Random personality quirk: roll d12
1. Opinionated
2. Witty or crude
3. Overtly religious
4. Dishonest or gullible
5. Artistic or skilled
6. Impatient or enthusiastic
7. Bitter or stubborn
8. Cowardly or brave
9. Lazy or hard-working
10. Silver-tongued
11. Hot tempered or wise
12. Clever or stupid
Why did they become a bandit? Roll d6 twice, keep most plausible result.
1. Couldn't earn a living any other way for some reason.
2. Wanted for a crime in their country, fled here (may or may not be guilty)
3. Fled to the Greenbelt to escape something other than the law (bad debts, crossed someone ruthless, looming civil war in Brevoy, personal tragedy, angry spouses are unreasonable).
4. Traveller or local trapper/hunter recruited into bandits under duress.
5. Career criminal.
6. Secret agenda (infiltrator from another organisation, searching for something hidden in the Greenbelt, trying to redeem bandits from within, protect sibling/friend who joined bandits).
Alignment: Start at CN, roll d6. First roll is 5-6: move alignment one step and roll again. Second+ roll is 6: move another step away and roll again. Stop on other results, or after reaching max distance (LG/LE). Can roll for direction (always away from CN) or just choose based on other traits.