Wolfgang Volos's page

First off, full credit to the following individuals for inspiring my game and giving me more to work with then I could ever use.

Erik Freund's Venture Capital

Redcelt32's Game of Thrones in Brevoy

Dudemeister's Hargulka's Monster Kingdom & Varnhold Vanishing Additions and Changes & a ton of other posts, threads, and suggestions elsewhere.

That being said... I've used Brevoy in a myriad of ways. I'm kind of surprised when I hear from other Kingmaker GMs who haven't taken advantage of the source material and friendly forum advice on Brevoy. Here's how I used it in my game.

Character Backgrounds
My wife's character has a crazy long and insanely weird backstory.

My best friend has a less long but still crazy backstory.

I've also used Brevoy outside of the player's backgrounds.

The rest of how I've used Brevoy in my game.

I've been working on making my encounters suck less. To that end I've developed some Encounter Seeds. The bare mote of an idea for a scene or event for the players to stumble upon, or for that scene/event to stumble upon them. My list so far is rather extensive but I feel there is still room for improvement. They are very simple but set the tone for a random encounter that may or may not develop into a fight, roleplay scene, or series of skill checks. So, here is my Encounter Seeds as they are so far. If anyone else has some ideas for some, especially non-combat encounters, I'd love to see them.

Whether or not there is any sort of leadership hierarchy, do you want there to be? I've experienced plenty of games were one player takes a certain class (let's call it the Stick-up-the-Blank class). You'd think playing with a champion of justice and order would be a good thing until that player is dictating to the group what they can and cannot do because that player's character won't like it. Or they lose their powers from their god because the rogue did something shady and they didn't arrest them on the spot. Having players in positions of power above one another isn't going to be a good thing for your game. Just assume that all the roles have their own focus and decisions are made by all of the leadership positions together. Sure, story-wise you would have more power as the ruler but effectively at the table each player should have equal voice over what happens to the group's kingdom.

I had a fair bit of trouble with kingdom building with my first run of Kingmaker and it was ultimately what ended that campaign. Well, that and the fact that my wife couldn't stand the other player's attitudes. This second run has been going really well in regards to kingdom building. The first few kingdom turns were rough and they almost went bankrupt after a botched Economy roll. One player, the rules savvy guy, took the time to read and understand the rules better on the buildings and improvements. After he figured it out, he explained it to the others. Once the whole group had a basic grasp of what was good for the kingdom, rules wise, they were able to plan out their choices alot better. It was still rough, but I made sure they took plenty of adventuring time between kingdom turns so no one got bored. Before I knew it the whole group was looking forward to the kingdom turns. I almost always have an event happen, good or bad, to keep things interesting. I guess I just eased them into it gradually and tried to tie the NPCs they cared about into the things they were building.

My group is about halfway through the second book and they are still enjoying hexploration. I realize that by the time we start the third book they will be tired of exploring everything in a day by day / hex by hex kind of way. My group also made secondary characters which they have been using to explore. Instead of these secondary PCs being made for taking care of the adventuring, they are giving each player a chance to try something new. Each player's two PCs are involved in the story and both of each sit on the ruling council. For example my wife is the Ruler and the Councilor. My best friend is the General and the Spymaster. And our good buddy is the Grand Magister and the Warden. Important or favored NPCs fill the other roles. They hexplore for about six weeks at a time, hit two months of kingdom building back to back (we call it a double tap), and go back at it again. I try to throw enough events at them during kingdom management to keep it interesting.

Update! My players may have to challenge Hargulka for the moniker of "Monster Kingdom". They have this idea that all sentient creatures are welcome in their kingdom and that they should be dealt with and treated as equals. To this end they have a full blooded Orc as a general, a Half-Elf as Councilor, a pure-blood Azlant as Ruler, a Damphir as Spymaster, the Kobolds peacefully part of their kingdom, and even the dire wolves under Howl-of-The-North-Wind as 'citizens'. They spared the life of the werewolf who killed a shepherd boy and a young woman, opting to put him to work in order to earn enough to pay for the resurrection of both of his victims. They are seeking to add either the frog-men or the lizard folk to their ranks as well, as it would be unreasonable to assume both would live peacefully within the same lands. The Fey have been treated with respect and deference but the founders know that the denizens of the First World would never truly join their kingdom, so they settle on a friendly peace.

Gigori had a time ripping into them about the lack of human control over the kingdom, but the PCs leaned into their positions on equality and won over the hearts of their citizens. The disruptive bard left quickly with his tail between his legs. Hargulka had tried to claim that the founders couldn't possibly be accepting of monstrous races like the Kobolds. Their history with the Kobolds and the other non-humans of the Stolen Lands blew that argument up in the Troll King's face. I think they may have a good shot at stealing the title "Monster Kingdom" whether they want/realize it or not.

Dudemeister, I don't know if you get this enough but your changes to RRR are amazing. My group just had their first interaction with Hargulka when they tried to annex the Sootscale Kobolds. Most of the time they are rather bold when approaching encounters. This time was different.

TLDR: My players met with Hargulka, narrowly won in a Charisma Skill battle against him, they claimed the Kobolds as part of their kingdom, and are now shook about the idea of a Troll Kingdom.

I'm looking forward to running the rest of RRR with Hargulka's Monster Kingdom and I'll update as to what my players do with any of the key encounters with the Trolls.

...and the Greenbelt, the Nomen Heights, the Slough, and the Glenebon Uplands.

I'm curious as to what terrains you determined existed within your Kingmaker run in the varrious Stolen Lands. The rules for Kingdom Building include Cavern, Coastline, Desert, Forest, Hills, Jungle, Marsh, Mountains, Plains, and Water. As best as I can tell running Kingmaker will only call for the use of a handful of these. I'd like to use Jungle but I'm not sure if there is any locations that would qualify. Perhaps the forests closest to the marshes of the Hooktongue Slough? Desert is right out, as there isn't anywhere that should be that barren of water in these River Kingdoms. I could see an argument for the lands bordering Numeria or just north of the Tors of Levenies. Thoughts?

I feel like the transition between books 1 & 2 is too abrupt, and I can't help but ask the question "where does that 50 BP come from?" Since I just got to that point in my homegame, it's high time to do something about it.

They're heading back to Restov this session, and this is where they will meet Varn and Drelev. The festivities will be delayed while they wait for the Iron Wraiths. (Yea, I know the whole settlement thing is written as being on the down-low, but I'm making it a big public todo.)

Anyway, I'm thinking the Swordlords themselves will only be able to pony up about 15 BP to the PCs. To get the rest of the BP, the PCs will have to look to various other groups within Brevoy to get funding. And these funds with definately come with strings attached. Some obvious, some not-so-much.

(Will make follow up post later with specifics.)

I cannot thank you enough for making this suggestion and starting this amazing thread. So, while I know I am going to fall short I will still try... THANK YOU!!!

Now for some sort of explanation.

Without this addition to my game, I had alot of doubt I was going to want to keep running Kingmaker. It was the campaign I always wanted to run, but I was getting tired of prepping for sessions that felt like they were missing something. Now with how excited everyone has become due to these recent roleplay-packed sessions, I've got my drive back. This Kingdom is going down in history. I plan on keeping detailed notes on everything that goes on in our campaign so I can use it as a background for my son's first venture into roleplaying. He's three years old now, but I want him to play in a setting where his mother's character was the queen and my background NPC as king and my son is their heir. I really think that would be just awesome, so thanks again. Thank you, thank you... thank you.

The Face Cards I developed from the online campaign journal worked amazingly well. Normally my group meets bi-weekly but after this past regular session we decided to meet back up two days later (today). The idea was that they had to meet with the Swordlords, the Nobility, and the Churches of Brevoy to ask for Build Points to get their kingdom started. Yes, they had a charter giving them the rights to claim a new kingdom but they were without funding, people, or resources. Using the face cards really brought the NPCs to life and got everyone involved in the session. When I would take a break from the table for food, drink, or other human body needs, the group would suddenly lean in on the table and heavily debate what their next move was. Mind you, my group usually just goes with a simple but well thought out approach for most things. But with the political angle mixed in they really came together and started caring about what was going on. I don't have the words, but giving faces to the names MADE my game.

For the first book I was able to get away with using minis for most NPCs. I use paper minis, most of which I use the official art from the books to make. So when a player picks up and looks at Happs Bydon, for example, they recognize him. But now that we're getting into the Political side of things I didn't want to have miniatures for all the nobles. If it can stand on the map then it is assumed they can fight it. If it is just a face and name on a card, then it pushes them to roleplay (or at least that is my hope). I really don't need to worry about this with my current group, they talk to everything and everyone from bandits to kobolds to a wyvern.

The online campaign journal I linked to has some really decent art including family crests for each art. I'll report after next session as to how the players like it.

As a GM I really enjoy the roleplaying aspect of tabletop gaming. Becoming different characters comes easily for me and I know my players love seeing me go from gruff old man one minute to tiny cute fey the next. Something I've used in other campaigns to aid in this endeavor is the Face Cards product from Paizo. Unfortunately there wasn't such a product for Kingmaker. I'm guessing this adventure path came out well before all those kinds of accessories became commonplace for later campaigns. I have, however, gotten somewhat lucky and I wish to share this luck with you.

I found an online campaign journal thrown up by another GM with very interesting face art for all the major nobles and other important NPCs. Example of such face art here. The circular borders around the faces are very detailed but I can't seem to find them anywhere online. If anyone recognizes these borders, let me know so I can collect the rest. For now I'm planning on using these to represent the heads of each noble house as the players reach Rivers Run Red.

We're using
Erik Freund's Venture Capital and Redcelt's Game of Thrones in Brevoy, so knowing who they are talking to as well as what they look like and which noble house they belong to will be very useful.

Has anyone else used face cards or similar representations other than miniatures to represent characters during roleplay for Kingmaker? My group has a tendency to ask questions first and fight later so we end up roleplaying a lot and running combat only when necessary.

Even without magic or class abilities, a group could be smart about this. Throw down some food for the poor creature, which is probably ravenous from being trapped at the bottom of a pit trap. I'm not saying that the unintelligent animal should 'trust' them at that point, but if it is fed and they aren't threatening perhaps they can find a way to pull it out with a lasso or something.

oooh I like this-

Yeah, I have a mindless-ish job which affords me plenty of time to think of character-centric ideas for my campaign. I literally don't intend on coming up with anything. One minute I'm picking things up and putting them down, the next my brain goes, "Hey... what if the Warpriest of Gorum had to pull his special loot sword from a stone... because reasons." And before I can even start to feel clever, "Nah, scratch that. He has to insert HIS big-ass sword into the stone and it BECOMES the legendary Sword of Blah Blah McBlah-fin, Minor aspect."

It's a curse. Beautiful curse, but a curse nonetheless.

I pre-roll weather by the month, using a random generator program I found in my old Kingmaker files when I started to re-run this AP. Honestly I've found ALOT of content in my old files. I apparently reworked alot of encounters, did detailed write ups of different NPCs, regions, and events. I even reworked certain aspects of the local Golarion history to make more sense to me and/or allow me to make a certain Lich more involved in the AP. But enough about my work from years ago helping my game today.

I might switch over to your system of weather once we get out of exploration and into kingdom building. I also use the Golarion calendar I found at https://dungeonetics.com/calendar/ to keep me abreast of holidays, the time of year, and just to keep track of how long the group is out and doing things.

It's like you're asking what to do if a player gets petrified by a cockatrice. They deal with it. Bathe in the blood, get the condition removed by powerful magic, or roll a new character. Look at the rules for the condition the player is dealing with, have them make knowledge checks to see if they know how to deal, and then have consequences. If your playgroup will not handle this well, give them an out. Maybe there is a rare but special herb deep in the woods that can cure or help them control their lycanthropy. I personally would yank the sheet right out of the player's hands if they were out of control of their character for any reason, but my group knows that about me and hasn't fought me on it yet. Then again, mind control or confusion effects are rare in my games.

Thread Necro... I am running the game for my kids and their friends and I was trying to do the same thing, 4 years after you did ;). My resolution was poor though and I didn't want to spend the $80 on something that might not turn out. Do you still have the high def file you used, or was your map "fuzzy" too?

kadance wrote:

I used Staples (the office supply store) to print a giant 8' x 2.5' composite of the entire map on a vinyl banner. I then used photoshop to make a pages of hexes (I think 8 full 2" hexes on each sheet) and cut them out. A little sticky tack to mount the paper hexes on the vinyl map and I now have a giant KM map that can always be seen and still maintains the mystery.

I took it a step further and printed icons for hex improvements (stolen from Civ) and striped borders in different colors. I'll try to take a picture and link it here in the few days.

It's kinda an odd feeling to have your old thread get Necro'ed years after posting it. Even stranger when you've gone EXACTLY with this advice for running Kingmaker again. I've added a little element that my players enjoy; full page printable stickers. If they find something, do something, or finish an encounter they want to remember then I make a sticker for it. I pre-printed a page or two of icons from The Stolen Lands map key from the adventure pdf. It's easy enough to plaster them where they need to go. I've so far posted every planned hex encounter or location like Oleg's Trading Post, The Sootscale Tribe, and The Gold Mine. But I've also had a few unmarked icons for things like river crossings (I just use the Bridge icon, regardless of how they got across), a deep woods semi-permanent camp, and the sites of any nasty random encounters they thought were planned. I can keep my players in the dark about encounter locations they haven't found but still show them the map, and I can show them what they have found and keep them interested or involved in the exploration aspect of the game.

My players are going to be floored by this. Thank you Rhys for this amazing piece of work. There is nothing I, or my group, loves more than a well designed prop. Poetry, art, a detailed history of an item... these are the things that turn a game into a campaign.

I'm using the alternate Wealth by Level system in Unchained. This gives me the flexibility to throw in magic items with simple enchantments like Flaming or Keen, but not be forced to throw the party a +3 or +4 equivalent weapon to keep treasure relevant. On the other hand, I'm not throwing absolutely useless +1 sell-this-for-gold weapons at the party either.

I was planning on having items from Inner Sea Gods being sprinkled into the treasure at various points, due to my party's increased interest in the gods of Golarion. The weapons, and other treasure from that book, have history since they are attached to the gods of the campaign. Other than that, I was planning on dropping items with significance to Brevoy's history with the Swordlords or from different failed explorations into the stolen lands.

How did it go?

I may do a similar thing soon.

This is my favorite thread in a long time.

I will be cribbing your list of crimes, penalties, and imprisonments times!

The situation the party was in that was leading toward this trial had resulted from the rash actions of one member of the party... The Cleric of Asmodeus. The one person who should have known what was illegal or not, and what crime and punishment was in Cheliax. But nope, he decided to attack people that had done little to nothing to him. So when he couldn't make it to the following session, I decided it was in everyone's best interest to retcon the burning hands assault, and not arrest them. So they just started the campaign proper and had a wonderful time not being in court. I'll keep these rules set aside in case they need them for being on either side of the aisle.

*PURE GOLD*

Everything you said was awesome. A lot of it hit on some ideas I was knocking around but hadn't finished forming properly. I was also thinking part of this is going to take place before the trial. They players will probably be presented with the evidence against them and be allowed to do some research of their own before the trial. Since this isn't a murder or manslaughter case, the evidence probably isn't nearly as important. I like the idea of the judge having more concern about public order than the by-the-book facts of what happened. "Yes, you did have Negligent Use of Magic, but the REAL crime is what those 'actors' were doing to the name of Asmodeus."

I'm not sure if this is how it is in canonical Cheliax, but I have the Church tied into the legal systems. The laws of Cheliax are based on the Asmodean Disciplines, the unholy texts of the Asmodean faith. To be familiar enough to practice or adjudicate the laws of this land, you basically have to be a Cleric. There are exceptions to this, of course, but more often than not the Judges will be part of the faith.

I have two patrons in mind for the players, opposing evil forces within the city. One will try to approach them while they await trial and offer to make their problems go away. They have battery, negligent use of magic, and other charges levied against them. If they lose their case it will be a long and expensive stay at the local Hellknight Citadel's dungeon. If they refuse that patron's offer, then they will have the other attempt to intervene during their trial. The second patron will only do so if things are looking bleak. A sudden strong piece of evidence, or a very convincing witness. Whichever patron they choose to accept help from will aid them in coming adventures and the other will probably become an antagonist.

I've gotten a lot of criticism about running an Evil campaign but throwing the book at the players. This isn't coming from my players, they are fine with what's going on. As newbies they are quite frank with me when they feel I mess up. Like complaining for two weeks that I almost killed the Gunslinger with a goblin's thrown torch attack. When he could have used Gunslinger's Dodge and been fine. Yep. -sigh- But the criticism is that if I'm running an Evil game, why punish the players by having harsh laws? I feel it is fair to the setting to portray Cheliax as the Lawful Evil society it is. Also the players need boundaries. Soon enough they will be the enforcers of Law and will be able to use these harsh laws to control the citizenry.

I've updated the crimes list with short definitions for each. If any of these seem like they aren't descriptive enough, that is intentional. Cheliax is a place for bending the rules. They are Lawful, but they are Evil as well. Just as soon charge you with 5 crimes rather than let criminal scum walk around free.

As far as the Trial goes, I'm going to use the Verbal Duels rules. But I will be making a few small changes. I'm not going to bother explaining all the rules about types of arguments, reading the jury, or any of that. I will keep the Determination points, ante, opposed checks back and forth till someone quits, and the edges. So basically all of it except the argument styles. I'll simplify that to something like 'if you use the same skill check twice in a row, take a penalty or you can't use an edge.'

I would just use the verbal duel rules from UI. They were kind of made with this sort of situation in mind.

I... have no idea how I missed that. I have Ultimate Intrigue. I have eyeballs. Huh... anyways, Verbal Duels look awesome, if a little chunky. I might trim that down a little for my players. Thanks for the suggestion.

Wolfgang Volos wrote:

I need to add descriptions for each type of crime to explain what it is. I mean, what's the difference between Burglary, Robbery, and Theft?

I am not versed in the nuances of law, especially in Cheliax, so the degrees of severity for these crimes and their punishments may not be congruent with modern day associations.

I believe, Burglary involves theft and trespassing, such as robbing a home, a warehouse, or a store or shop after it's closed.

Theft is probably any stealing that doesn't involve breaking and entering or trespassing, like pick-pocketing, purse-snatching, robbing stall or a shop that's open for business.

Robbery likely involves violence or the threat of violence or directly confronting the victim, like mugging, highway robbery (like a stage coach hold-up), train robbery, extortion (though that crime might be named itself), and also piracy on the seas (though that is likely just called piracy, as well.)

I was mostly asking rhetorically, but you've saved me some time in writing up descriptions for all the various crimes. I'm going to throw up short descriptions under or beside each crime. This way I, and my players, know what sort of actions constitute certain crimes. After they have the right connections or influence over the city, many of the crimes will simply not apply to them. But while they work up to that point, it is important. Also if they want to catch any criminals and know what to have them charged for.

I've looked at the Victory Points system and I'm just not satisfied with it. Opposed skill checks are thematic but means only one side can earn any VP each round. There should be incremental progress from both sides throughout the trial. So I'm switching things up. After each crucial point of the trial, each side will make their chosen skill check. Each will earn VP equal to the skill check minus 10 and then divided by 2, rounded down. Example: A Bluff check of 19 earns 4 VP. (19 - 10 = 9. 9 / 2 = 4.5) It's the same math used for ability scores. I may or may not create a cap for how much VP can be earned.

The Objection rules would be very similar to before. You use Sense Motive or Profession Barrister to notice any funny business from the other side during Witness, Evidence, or Testimony. If successful you are allowed to make an Intimidate or Profession Barrister check. The opposition loses VP equal to your check minus 15 and then divided by 2, rounded down. Example: An Intimidate check of 20 would lose the opposition 2 VP (20 - 15 = 5. 5 / 2 = 2.5)

Doing the Victory Points like this gives each side 6 chances to earn VP and up to three chances to take some VP away from the Opposition. Skills like Bluff would still be subject to the penalties or bonuses for believably or convincing evidence. I would allow Aid Another bonuses during trials since they should be working together as a team. I might just increase the DC of Aid Another to 15 or higher due to the circumstances.

Well I am using the following guidelines for Crimes and Punishment in Cheliax. I'm still working on adjusting a few of these, but it is pretty close to a final version. I need to add descriptions for each type of crime to explain what it is. I mean, what's the difference between Burglary, Robbery, and Theft? Perjury is a High Crime, punishable by a large fine and branding. Everyone will know you lie under oath when you have a scar on your forehead.

My players have done a goof. We intended to have a 'Law and Order' style game set in Cheliax with a group of Lawful Evil Characters. What we got was some trigger happy Asmodeans burning an outdoor play stage and assaulting actors for insulting their god. It was a right mess. So now my players are arrested by the Hellknights and await trial. So I guess I had to come up with a system for holding a trial in game. Here's what I came up with so far. Please, please, please be critical and give me any advice or ideas you have to make this better. Next session is on the 8th of April, where we will see just how well this all works.

The Player Characters, or their Lawyer(s), will use skill checks at crucial points of the Trial to argue their case. These will be opposed by the skill checks of the Prosecution. I've come up with the following uses for skill checks for defendants, but they are by no means the only interpretation. Still haven't worked out how these skill checks work for the prosecution.
Bluff - Arguing Innocence from Accusation
Diplomacy - Arguing Justification of Actions
Intimidate - Attempt to Discredit Opposition
Knowledge (Local or Nobility) or Profession (Barrister) - Use obscure law to prove actions were not illegal

The opposed skill checks will happen during the following crucial points of the Trial. I've basically just pulled these from watching alot of Law and Order, not sure if they are general enough.
Structure of Trial Proceedings
1) Opening Statements
2) Allegations of Crime
3) Witness(es) to Alleged Crime(s)
4) Evidence of Alleged Crime(s)
5) Testimony of The Accused
6) Closing Statements

Winning the opposed skill checks with the opposition's lawyer will grant Victory Points. The number of points is determined by the difference between the final results of the skill checks. Defeating the opposition by 1 to 5 points grants 1 VP. 6 to 10 is 2 VP. 11 to 15 is 4 VP. And more than 16 is 6VP.

There will be opportunities to use superior legal knowledge or a keen eye to launch an Objection against the opposition. These may only be attempted during the Witness, Evidence, and Testimony portions of the Trial. Using Sense Motive, Knowledge(Local/Nobility), or Profession(Barrister) the PCs or their Lawyers can detect violation of the rules of evidence or other procedural law. This is opposed by Bluff, Knowledge(Local/Nobility), or Profession(Barrister). Success means the opposition loses 2 VP. Further successful Objections only loses the opposition 1 VP.

If the Prosecution has more VP at the end of the trial, then the accused are convicted of their crimes. If the difference between Prosecution and Defendant is profound (5 or more) they may be sentenced harshly or charged with additional crimes. If the Defendants have more VP at the end of the trial, then they are acquitted of their alleged crimes. If the difference between Defendant and Prosecution is profound (5 or more) then they are vindicated and may be in a position to launch a counter suit for defamation.

(( I've been playing around with the idea of moving away from the opposed skill checks. Perhaps there would be a DC each side rolls against, based on country, settlement, and Judge. Success means each side earns VP based on Skill check and how far over the DC they go. Perhaps extra VP for rolling much higher than the opposition. And still having an Objection system for taking VP away from the opposition. ))

If you don't have alot of time to doesn't reading the campaign books and you want to become familiar with the adventure, I would suggest checking out Chronicles Pathfinder Podcast. It is available for free on iTunes and easy to find elsewhere with some Google-fu. They cover everything you need to know, things you didn't know you needed to know, and they talk to the authors of the adventures to get you the inside scoop on what they were thinking as well as what was cut from the AP to fit word count. I can't recommend them enough. Other than that, sit down and read the books from start to finish.

Normally I have combat maneuvers provoke without the appropriate feat. I have considered moving away from the skill bonus in favor of the BAB but I have some reservations. Having run this with my group a few sessions so far, it seems to give everyone a chance to shine outside of the regular attack, spell, or sneak attack routine. I am worried that reworking it to function off BAB will make it more complicated than I intended to be. Your suggestion for a replacement of a set penalty instead of my -5 to +5 DM fiat is very interesting. It may help the unbalance of high skill checks vs low Skill Maneuver Defense. I haven't had a chance to playtest at higher levels, but I have noticed that every once in a while a player can roll a 20 on a high stat full ranked skill and really ruin a mob. One player got sneak attack, skill, weapon, and environmental damage. Making me feel that I should restrict the number of stacked damage types, lower numbers at low levels and higher or no restriction at higher levels.

I'm thinking of keeping it as an attack action but limiting it to once per round. So they could still take advantage of TWF or multiple attacks either after, during, or before the rest of their attacks. I had thought about using Called Shots, but I thought it would make the system too complicated. In addition to ruling on what sort of status effects and/or type of damage they could deal between Skill, Weapon, and Environmental I would have to determine where they were aiming and how difficult that shot was going to be.

I'm having Skill Maneuvers not provoke unless they fail by 5 or more. This keeps some risk without being so risky that the players won't use it. I am still developing feats for Skill Maneuvers. I was thinking they could do things like reduce the provoking threshold, grant bonuses to all Skill Manuevers, increase number per encounter or number per round.

I completely forgot about Skill Tricks, I should look at that for some ideas that I can steal/modify. I plan on making some feats, most of which are 3rd level and up so I have some time. My group is 1st level and I'm using them to playtest this new system. They are mostly new players, so I may be ruining them for any future GMs. Oh well. I think I may need to reword the 'replace an attack roll' part. I'm not sure if a two-weapon fighting character or a character with claws should be able to burn two Skill Maneuvers in one turn.

I see, that makes more sense then. IF it is supposed to be the main attack for the playtest class, then the damage progression reflects that. The bloodline ability of the Sorcerer is a backup or free cantrip, so it doesn't stay relevant.

Why would the Occult Playtest abilites be any different? That seems rather odd to me.

I have a player who wants to play a Sorcerer with a bloodline power that says it deals 1d6+1 per two sorcerer levels. Before he hits higher levels, I want to know if it is (1d6) plus 1 per two levels or if it is (1d6 plus 1) per two levels. Basically would a second level sorcerer deal 1d6+2 or would they deal 2d6+2? The power is the Elemental Spit ability of the Draconic Bloodline alternative first level power through the Linnorm Bloodline, but this would also apply to the elemental bloodline as well. I tried my google-fu and my paizo-fu but it failed me horribly, my apologies.

EDIT: I forgot to mention a couple of important things. When trying to use a Skill Maneuver you do not declare to the GM what skill you are trying to use. This home-rule is more about creativity and inventive thought than power-gaming and number crunching. You describe your intended actions and attempted approach. The GM, as per usual for a skill check, will tell you what skill to roll for.

The second thing I forgot to add was a limitation on the frequency of use for Skill Maneuvers. For now I was thinking of limiting it to one use per combat for every two base skill points your character class receives, rounding up. So a class with 2 + Int skill points per level will be able to attempt a Skill Maneuver once per combat, whereas a class that has 6 + Int skill points per level will be able to attempt a Skill Maneuver three times per combat. This would increase by one Skill Maneuver per combat for every three levels. In the case of multi-clasing you would use the class you had the most levels in, or in the case of a tie the class with the most uses. I figured that this could make it accessible to everyone but still allow the skill-monkeys to really shine.

I was also tinkering around with the idea that certain roleplay challenges could have a number of hit-points and a SMD based on their CR. Each skill check could turn into a Skill Maneuver and take off a certain number of hit-points from the challenge until it was defeated. A way to measure each player's contribution to the event without having to arbitrate it with 'Needs three successes before two failures.' The challenges, if time senstive, could be a failure if enough turns go by or they could regain some health for badly botched rolls.

tldr: The GM, not the player, chooses the skill check used for the SMB roll. You can use a Skill Maneuver once per combat for every 2 base skill points your class gets before Int bonuses. So if you get 6 Skill Points per level, you can use three Skill Maneuvers per fight. This increases by one use per three levels. And then something about roleplay encounters getting Hit-Points and a SMD for your players to do Skill Damage to with Skill Maneuvers instead of skill checks.

I've been running Pathfinder for a long while, and in all of that time I have felt something was missing. Why it is that any spell-caster gets to control the battlefield or take advantage of environmental situations but a melee guy or skill monkey can't seem to keep up? Was there something fundamentally wrong with the game balance? Or was there something that could be done? This is when I came up with the idea of a Skill Maneuver.

Let me know what you think, good or bad. I have run through several versions of this and this is the one I think I want to start playtesting before my new campaign starts up in a few weeks. Any feedback would be great, questions can only help, and your ideas are probably better than mine.

tldr: A Skill Maneuver is like a Combat Maneuver but you roll a Skill check vs Combat Maneuver Defense plus your target's Wisdom and Intelligence Bonuses. You declare if you want to deal damage, inflict and condition, or replicate a Combat Maneuver before you roll. At each multiple of 5 above their Skill Maneuver Defense you exceed, you either upgrade damage, add weapon damage, add environmental damage, inflict another condition, or replicate a combat maneuver. This new house-rule makes for a more cinematic exciting game.

I have recently moved to Ridgway PA, about six months ago, and begun running a Kingmaker AP campaign. My group could use another couple of players. We have completed the first book, but I am willing to change the story or flow of the campaign to encompass new characters. As of right now we are playing at 6th level, but that is likely to change as the story progresses. I tend to bend the rules to allow players to play interesting builds or concepts that are outside of the norm. Case in point, my wife is playing a Harrowed Magus who wields a 'Black-Blade' type of Harrow deck as her main weapon, and another player is playing a gun wielding investigator Kitsune from Tian Xai. The third player is just your typical Half-Orc Hunter, nothing really strange or interesting there.

If you have fun build or want to mix a couple of archetypes that normally can't mix, I like to bend or change things to make them as fun and flavorful as possible. Usually this gives more options rather than making a min-maxed crazy powerful character. A good example of this is the gun wielding Investigator Kitsune in my group. He can shape-change into any human visage he's seen due to a feat, and he has two different guns with more ammunition types than I can count. He doesn't really deal alot of damage or do anything crazy, but he has fun and always has an option regardless of what curve balls I throw at him. Those are the kind of characters I like to run with.

I focus on Roleplay first and stats second, and have employed a few interesting house-rules to make combat faster and more fun. Instead of the standard, and in my opinion boring, initiative system I have employed initiative cards. Everyone rolls for Initiative at the beginning of combat, chase, or other turn-based event. The highest roll goes first and is handed a deck of cards with everyone's name or designation (in the case of NPC/Foes) listed on them. After taking their own turn the person will choose a card and allow that person to go next. The very last card in the deck takes the first turn in the next round when the deck is regrouped. Essentially they get two turns in a row. This allows for more strategic play and has seemed to keep everyone interested in combat, chases, or interrogation situations.

A few of my other house rules are in regards to dice rolling, the skill system, and other minor details. Basically if you roll dice they have to be on the table, your sheet, or some over flat surface of the play area. Floor rolls never count, and I may allow or call for re-rolls of cocked dice. With the skill system I will ask you WHAT you are trying to do and HOW you plan to do it. Once I know your INTENT and APPROACH for your proposed action I may or may not call for a skill or ability check. I'm very into team play so if you describe how you want to help even if you aren't trained in the skill, I'll probably allow an aid-another bonus. And for minor details, I tend to make rulings on the fly to keep the game flowing but will look up things later to make sure I was right or close enough. If this changes the interpretation of your character's mechanics in an unfavorable way I will allow retraining or I may just make something up for you. I'd rather have fun than to be 100% RAW and RAI approved in my game play.

Respond here or PM me if you are interesting in joining our group. I have played with all manner of gamers in the past; guys, girls, shy people, outgoing people, and even the non-geeks. If you are interested, I have a spot for you at my table.

My players went for the infiltration option as well. Leading up to the fort I had them see a few haunts that explained bits and pieces of the Stag Lord's past concerning his father and his 'dream'. I also rebuilt The Stag Lord, Auchs, and Dovan using classes from the Advanced Class Guide. The Stag lord became a slayer. Auchs was a brawler. And Dovan was a Swashbuckler. Being crafty my players were able to turn Auchs against Dovan, Akiros against the rest of the bandits, and they were able to take down the Stag Lord in short order. However at that point I decided that a certain heartless lady would give her aid to the Stag Lord and bring him back to full HP as a Bloodrager. At the same moment the Owlbear finally burst forth from its cage, having been charmed by the same unnamed lady. It was a fun fight for my players, and it really gave me a chance to show them the story behind the Stag Lord.

I have recently moved to Ridgway PA and begun running a Kingmaker AP campaign. My group could use another couple of players. We are only about halfway through the first book. I tend to bend the rules to allow players to play interesting builds or concepts that are outside of the norm. Case in point, my wife is playing a Harrowed Magus who wields a 'Black-Blade' type of Harrow deck as her main weapon, and another player is playing a gun wielding investigator Kitsune. The third player is just your typical Half-Orc Hunter, nothing really strange or interesting there. I focus on Roleplay first and stats second, and have employed a few interesting houserules to make combat faster and more fun. Respond here or PM me if you are interesting in joining our group.

I've been trying to do something like this myself for a while but I haven't had the time or expertise. Thanks Filmguy! I'm using Open Office rather than Excel and have been having some issues forcing a recalculation but it seems to do that fine when I open the file. I also can't seem to see the moon phases where they should show up.

So far my players have taken a rather reasonable approach to things. They laid in ambush for the bandits at the beginning of Stolen Lands, killed off all of the minions, but captured Happs Bydon. After explaining his situation to him they managed to turn him away from a life of banditry and onto the path of redemption. This theme continued when they got to the bandit camp a few days later and proceeded to put every bandit down but Kressle. She was harder to convince, but once they made it clear that her chances were better off with them than with her boss, she grudgingly agreed to give up her thug-like ways. They also managed to defeat a certain purple kobold and became honorary members of the Sootscale tribe. I wouldn't be surprised if they manage to find an ally or two among the Stag Lord's men. They already plan to infiltrate his fort rather than take it head on by force.

I'm really enjoying their discussions before, during, and after game about their plans for the Stolen Lands. So far there has only been a couple of encounters where they haven't atleast tried to talk something down and those particular fights were with mindless undead or animals. They even talked a raging grizzly down during a random nighttime encounter. Well, the Hunter used Wild Empathy and rolled high enough to make the thing indifferent, at which point it wandered off. Leaving me saying something like, "And the raging Grizzly gets this confused look on it's face, like it forgot where it put it's car keys, and promptly wanders off in search of whatever it is missing."

For some reason when I started this thread I never really thought of having the main map in the background with 'blank' hexes blocking what the player's haven't seen yet. Going along those lines I should be able to make something that will represent the map for my players fairly cheaply while still looking good and being effective. The major hurdle I have to get past is ease of transport. My game shifts from house to house each week and the materials need to be put out of the way whenever we're not playing. I figure going along with the 'poster' idea but chopping the map up into portions generally the size of a standard piece of printer paper would not only look better than a hand-drawn map but would also meet my other criteria (namely moving it around a lot).

My local library charges about $0.50 per color page which saves me from wasting all of my color ink. The local craft store has cardboard/foam board, glue, and tack all for less than $5.00 total. Printing the blank hexes, since they are black and white, would be about $0.25 a page and save my at home ink as well. I'll let you all know how it goes, but please keep brainstorming for the community's benefit. Some of the ideas you've generated already are rather brilliant and much more practical than what I've chosen to go with. I just have a certain cash, time, gas money, and transportation limits that keep me from doing certain ones. (The best of which so far was kadance's banner poster map IMHO)

Just bring them a printout of their currently explored/un-explored map at the start of each game. It's only 1 page. Update with new game info that session.

I like the idea of updating the map each session, but instead of printing it out each session and going through a lot of ink I think I will upload the image to my tablet. It can handle really large images, and if they can zoom in it will be a lot more immersive. It won't help between sessions but it will be great for recap and invaluable during Kingdom building.

A solution I read here:

Print the whole map and put it inside of a plastic sheet protector (like those we used in binders in school).

Using a dry-erase marker, hide all the unexplored hex. When the PCs explore a new hex, they only have to erase the marker on that spot.

In my experience dry-erase markers do not erase anytime after a day or so of being drawn on a surface like a sheet protector or a flip map. I transport my gaming materials to one of my player's house and somewhere between drawing a big flip map and going home the dry-erase becomes semi-permanent. Nice idea though, I think I may incorporate it into a 'fog of war' look for the unexplored parts of my map either in the final print or on the tablet images.

I used Staples (the office supply store) to print a giant 8' x 2.5' composite of the entire map on a vinyl banner. I then used photoshop to make a pages of hexes (I think 8 full 2" hexes on each sheet) and cut them out. A little sticky tack to mount the paper hexes on the vinyl map and I now have a giant KM map that can always be seen and still maintains the mystery.

I took it a step further and printed icons for hex improvements (stolen from Civ) and striped borders in different colors. I'll try to take a picture and link it here in the few days.

If you do not mind me asking kadance, about how much did it cost to have the composite of the entire map printed at Staples? Also your description is a little confusing. From what I am reading, you printed a banner map, then covered it in blank hexes that could be removed later to reveal the map? Sounds brilliant. I may try something in miniature if the Staples option is too expensive. I would have to find some sort of adhesive that wouldn't destroy the image below. Could also be good for Kingdom building.

I've been trying to think of different ways to make Kingmaker more player accessible without breaking my budget. I'm still in Stolen Lands, only two sessions in and my players are already exploring a whole swath of the map. I have printed out two copies of the Hex-ploration map in the Player's Guide to keep track of where they've been, seen, and done. One copy for may players, and one for myself. The problem is that the only person who really gets to see the map is the player who is drawing and dealing with the player's map. At first I thought of making more copies for the other players, but then I realized any discrepancies between the individual maps would cause a lot of confusion at the table.

For now I've come up with a solution that I hope will work. I've taken the images from my digital copy of the Kingmaker Map Folio and cut them into the individual Hexes. I've uploaded these images into my tablet and will present them to the players during the game. I know this is probably just a temporary solution, as the tablet's battery won't likely last the entire session and/or the players will have difficulty viewing it at the same-ish time. Not to mention I'd have to have multiple versions of each map hex; with and without encounter locations listed. I have been able to rip the maps out of the Map Folio without any of the text or labels.

I am looking for a way to bring the exploration map to my players in a way that presents the images in a readily accessible format without costing a lot of money to produce. As of now I have access to... Kingmaker Map Folio, Gimp (free version of Photoshop), Ink-Jet printer, freshly refilled ink for said printer, some 100 odd sheets of Card-stock, and anything else I can find at a craft/hobby store for less that $15. Any ideas for making the maps player accessible? I was toying with the idea of printing and cutting out the hexes but I'm not sure how to attach them to the map during game without the messiness of glue or the ineffectiveness of tacks or something. If I come up with something or if the tablet works my next session I will let you guys know.

While I am not in Erie, PA I am down in the middle of Elk county in Ridgway, PA. Do you know of any Pathfinder players in the immediate area? I've been looking for some for a while now with no luck.

I have recently moved from the Poconos to Ridgway, leaving my play group behind in the process. The move has gone well, but there is still something missing. I need to get my gaming on. So I am looking for a group in the Ridgway, Johnsonburg, St. Mary's area of Elk County PA. I am only looking to be a player at this time but six months to a year after I have settled into Ridgway I may start GameMastering again.

I have considered leaving out the fourth book to jump to the fifth, but my current run of the AP is very player driven. Unfortunately I must run the fourth book if I want the adventure to make sense to my players.

I've tried running through Council of Thieves two times now, and I haven't been able run the full adventure either time. The first run was cut short due to players outright quitting and moving away. This, the second run, is being cut short by my sudden moving four hours away. I intended to have enough time to run through all six books, but the time for my departure has been pushed up quite a bit and I've had to adjust accordingly.