The wizard in my game wants to bring in the Sequencer spell from older editions. I don't mind but I would like some help figuring out what level the spell would be. It a good spell and I like the idea but I don't want it to be to overpowered. We agreed it will only hold buffs. I am ok with a minor and a major version of this spell but I am not sure what level the actual spell would be and what level of spells it should hold.
Thank you in advance
DAA
Maybe post the spell details?
The internet isn't leading to anything. From what he told me the when prepping the spell you store two to three spells in it and when you cast sequencer the stored spells are cast then. Its a quick buff. I do not have the book of spells from AD&D.
The minor stored I think 2 spells from first to second level spells. While the major one is three spells from fourth level and below.
Ah, the Simbul's Spell Sequencer. Don't recall which 2E Forgotten Realms book it was from: likely either the Magister or Seven Sisters. Higher level spells. Try looking that up, or replace sequencer with "matrix".
The internet isn't leading to anything. From what he told me the when prepping the spell you store two to three spells in it and when you cast sequencer the stored spells are cast then. Its a quick buff. I do not have the book of spells from AD&D.
The minor stored I think 2 spells from first to second level spells. While the major one is three spells from fourth level and below.
So it's like Quicken spell, but 3 times as good?
I would advise against allowing it at all.
You can find it on D&D tools / player's guide to Faerun.
Simbul's Spell MAtrix, lvl 5
Simbul's Spell Sequencer, lvl 7
Simbul's Spell trigeer, lvl 9
If you consider it, make sure to use the updated version in Player's guide to Faerun. The one in the 3.0 Magic of Faerun is too unbalanced.
It basically allows you to cast quickened spells from a focus in which you stored spells, I'd replace the free action to use the spells to a swift action but otherwise I'd be fine with those versions.
The internet isn't leading to anything. From what he told me the when prepping the spell you store two to three spells in it and when you cast sequencer the stored spells are cast then. Its a quick buff. I do not have the book of spells from AD&D.
The minor stored I think 2 spells from first to second level spells. While the major one is three spells from fourth level and below.
If he wants to design a custom spell, submitting a written proposal happens before you even consider it.
And sequencer, along with Matrix, are among the most crazy overpowered caster benefits from a line of mostly crazy overpowered caster fellatio. Those spells are meant for Mary Sue NPCs, and completely wreck the action economy.
The internet isn't leading to anything. From what he told me the when prepping the spell you store two to three spells in it and when you cast sequencer the stored spells are cast then. Its a quick buff. I do not have the book of spells from AD&D.
The minor stored I think 2 spells from first to second level spells. While the major one is three spells from fourth level and below.
If he wants to design a custom spell, submitting a written proposal happens before you even consider it.
And sequencer, along with Matrix, are among the most crazy overpowered caster benefits from a line of mostly crazy overpowered caster fellatio. Those spells are meant for Mary Sue NPCs, and completely wreck the action economy.
The spells drain some hit points, they require dispelable somewhat pricey foci, have a limited duration (10/min lvl) and require multiple spell slots to invest also the buffs are relatively low level buffs.
They sequencer should replace the possibility to cast quickened spells for the round in which you use it.
Altogether there are a number of drawbacks to the spells that help balancing them out, then it also helps creating nova potential where PC's flame for a single encounter which might not at all be desirable.
I love the message boards! These are defiantly things I need to consider.
I do know it will speed up the action economy and with the group that I have that is a good thing. We tend to move rather slow.
Since it is a rather powerful spell should I make it a mythic spell or keep it as a mundane spell? I could have it cost the mythic points to store the spells into. Good way to burn the precious points and keep them and the baddies from using it constantly.
Thank you all so much!
DAA
I remember seeing these spells in Baldurs Gate 2. They werent too strong there but in PF it probably will be.
Metamagic spells (spells which modify other spells) are some of the craziest and easiest to abuse spells in the system.
The action economy is one of the few limits spellcasters have on their power. It's the fact they CANNOT drop a bunch of spells fast which is one of the few constraints on their power.
What you're doing here is basically allowing the mage to Quicken spells that he normally could not, in return for doing so ahead of time and expending a 5th level slot. Actually, with the original Matrix, it was a FREE action, so it was a way to cast 3 spells a round.
This should already be ringing alarm bells in your head. Instead of spending a 7th level slot to Quicken a 3rd level spell, he's spending a 5th level slot to get a free action out of a 3rd level spell. Yeah.
The Sequencer was even stronger, since it allowed you to Sequence 2 spells, and have them autocast one after another as free actions. One 7th level spell slot, get 4 spells in one round!
The Spell Trigger not only brought this up to 3 spells (albeit still 3rd level or less, mind you), but added CONTINGENCY, so the spells could go off automatically with the right trigger.
So, yes, with these spells, the word NOVA is totally applicable, since just casting these three allows the wizard to cast +6 spells this round, in addition to a quickened spell and his normal spell...not to mention contingencies.
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Limiting the spells to buff spells might be a thing, but buff spells targeting him or everyone around? Haste is a buff spell.
What you are really giving the guy is the ability to Quicken spells without needing the spell slots or the metamagic feat, instead using lower level spell slots to sub for them. It's akin to paying metamagic costs with spell slots instead of forcing the spell into a higher level slot.
This leads quickly to abuse. Without some major limitations on this, I wouldn't allow it. Have him take Quicken Spell and get fast buffs the normal way...by memorizing them.
==Aelryinth
I think the OP wants suggestions on how to make it work, rather than long posts detailing why it doesn't.
It works just fine with the levels it is at - the problem is, you probably don't want the spell to exist at all, because it breaks the action economy wide open, which is how you very quickly get overpowered, nova-end-the-fight spellcasters.
The game is based around 'quick' spells being expensive in cost of spell levels. These spells quash that.
It's a game balance issue, allowing the wizard to specifically break the action economy in his favor. It's kind of like giving him Time Stop levels earlier.
I personally would not let him do these spells at all, I'd make him use Quicken spell and limit him to the normal 1 extra spell/rd. Even if it is 'just buffs', it's removing the need to take this action in favor of another one. He doesn't have to make the choice to buff or attack...he can do BOTH.
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But yeah, the suggestions above were fair enough.
Limit it to buffs, okay. Just define what a 'buff' is, first.
Next, have the activation of it be a swift action, so it's effectively 'just' another QUickened spell, and the only real advantage is burning a 3rd and 5th slot instead of a 7th, or 2 3's and a 7th instead of 2 7th.
==Aelryinth
You can find it on D&D tools / player's guide to Faerun.
Simbul's Spell Matrix, lvl 5
Simbul's Spell Sequencer, lvl 7
Simbul's Spell Trigger, lvl 9If you consider it, make sure to use the updated version in Player's guide to Faerun. The one in the 3.0 Magic of Faerun is too unbalanced.
It basically allows you to cast quickened spells from a focus in which you stored spells, I'd replace the free action to use the spells to a swift action but otherwise I'd be fine with those versions.
Linkified.
/cevah
It's fine. Don't let the sky fall here.
It's a rather short duration effect that requires multiple spell slots be expended and costs a really expensive material component every time you cast it.
Will you "nova" a single combat? Sure, with your low level spells - you know, the spells that, at the level you can cast these at, won't make or break a fight.
Honestly? A Rod of Quicken is more dangerous than these spells.
I agree. I actually really like the idea of these spells, since they keep the low level spells relevent. I also agree with the PF team for not including these spells, but I think they're a great addition to a home game, where you keep an eye on them.