
muklowd |
Hi all,
Just interested to hear what folks think about this ... I had it in my head to make my wizard dip two levels of rogue (mostly just to get evasion) but then I started to worry about spell progression. He's 3rd level now so if I do the dip now then he won't get 3rd level spells until level 7. Is that worth it? We are starting to get to the level range where we might be facing area affect attacks/spells and as a wizard he is of course very squishy, so having a chance to reduce that sort of peril is quite attractive.
Since I've managed to talk myself into both basic perspectives I sort of wondered what other folks felt about this... is it a good idea? And if yes, is now the time to do it?

Hubaris |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

If you really want a 2 Level Dip for Evasion...
You could very well take Accomplished Sneak Attacker, net 2d6 Sneak Attack then head on over to Arcane Trickster.
Many people will advise against losing ANY spell levels, but frankly if you want that in your character... Do it. Its not the end all and be all depending on the power level of your campaign.
Alternatively if you JUST want Evasion (1 Level Dip)...
Feral Hunter. Use the Mouse aspect for Evasion at 1st level.
Fix'd URL.
Also in answer, if you're going to do it now is the time as you're basically going to hit Sorcerer progression.

Arcane Addict |

Spells are widely considered the most powerful thing in the game, at almost every point in the game. From a pure power perspective dipping would be a mistake.
However, you rarely need all that power. If you want to do something else go for it, the drop-off won't mean the difference between life and death. Well, maybe... At the point you're considering it. I would suggest waiting until you've gained access to third level spells at least, because thats the point where I feel Wizards really come into their own and possess enough firepower and utility for yourself and your party not to be bothered too much, or at all, by your character's midlife crisis. There are just a lot of important effects you gain access to at that level, effects that are often assumed to be available.
Finally, there are many alternatives worth exploring for dipping. I have a hard time believing evasion is truly all you want out of the rogue :p

Dragonchess Player |

Generally speaking, you should dip only if you have a plan for developing the character to maximize the value of the abilities gained from the dip.
As mentioned, dipping just for one class feature (that can be replicated with a magic item at higher levels) is normally going to cost you more than you gain; a better choice most of the time than Evasion for a wizard to protect against area damage spells is to learn the spell resist energy. If you know vanish and several ranged touch damaging spells, then a dip to gain 2d6 Sneak Attack (various options exist to reduce the hit to spell casting; you don't need three levels in rogue) and entering the arcane trickster prestige class can be a decent choice.

Finlanderboy |

Depends on what type of spells your casting and how you prepare for the dip.
Generally if you have to ask after the fact then no.
A blaster wizard is sub-optimal to not dip. You just want the proper trait to keep your caster level. A heavens oracle dip is a favorite dip often.
If you already made your character the best question to ask is how do i get x with what i have now.

Hubaris |

As a follow up to my earlier post in case it interests you...
Note that by dipping you lose a Level of Spellcasting, a Caster Level, School Progression, Familiar Progression, Arcane Discovery Prerequisites, Favored Class and so on... But you do get:
2 Level (Unchained) Rogue Dip:
-> Evasion
-> Rogue Talent
-> 1d6 Sneak Attack Damage
-> Finesse Training (Weapon Finesse for your Touch Attacks?!)
-> Trapfinding
-> +3 Reflex
-> +6 Skill Points / Level
Trapfinding Replacement
-> Catch Off Guard and Throw Anything as feats (Makeshift Scrapper)
-> Bravado's Blade, cheap Intimidate on Sneak Attack (Rake)
-> 1 Martial Weapon, such as Longbow (Swashbuckler)
-> Situational Luck Bonuses (Swindler)
-> Increased Intimidate duration (Thug)
Etc. Etc. There are many Archetypes that replace Trapfinding so take a look if you're serious!
The Hunter (Feral) Dip nets you:
-> +2 Reflex, +2 Fortitude
-> Wild Empathy
-> Treated as a Ranger and Druid of 1st level for Feat pre-reqs
-> Access to Druid/Ranger Wands (such as Cure Light Wounds, Restoration)
-> 1 1st level Hunter spell a day
-> +4 Skill Points
I am a huge fan of dipping, but more than 2 levels of another class on a 9 level caster has to be done with delicacy, but it can be done!

MichaelCullen |

It's a little tongue in cheek but it's true:
Ten Commandments of Optimization
I. Thou shalt not give up caster levels.
II. Wieldest thou thy two-handed weapon with alacrity; but two weapons shalt thou not wield, excepting that thou hast a source of bonus damage such as Sneak Attack.
III. Doubt not the power of the Druid, for he is mighty.
IV. Avoid ye the temptation of Gauntlets of True Strike, for they shall lead thee astray down the Path of Non-Rule Cheese.
V. Thou shalt not give up caster levels. Verily, this Commandment is like unto the first; but of such magnitude that it bore mentioning twice.
VI. Makest thou no build with an odd number of fighter levels, for such things are not pleasing to the Spirits of Optimization.
VII. The Rules of 3.5 are paramount; invoke not the rules of 3.0 if a newer version be available.
VIII. When beseeching the Bretheren of Optimization, come thou not empty handed, lest they smite thee; rather, bringest thou thine own build, that they may offer suggestions and guidance.
IX. Invoke not "common sense," for it is not common.
X. Thou shalt call no build "The Ultimate X" unless his name be Pun-Pun, or thou shalt see thine "Ultimate" build topped by the Bretheren within five minutes of posting.