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Hey guys! I'm arcaian, and I'm a relatively new player - started in July, play maybe once every two weeks, with no prior tabletop experience - and I'm playing in PFS. I felt this post was applicable broadly and is about advice, so it more relevant here than in the PFS boards.
My main character is my rogue - he's a level 4 unchained rogue at the moment. Two weapon fighting, and dex focused. He's got a +2 dex belt, so his current stat block is:
Str: 10
Dex: 20
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 14
He's quite effective in melee combat - my main hand is 1d6+5 as a base, and then I can throw in my +2d6 sneak attack, and debiliating blows, and the like, and get a fair bit of usefullness going. He's human, so he has 11 skill ranks with the FCB into skills. The only area he's really lacking is a ranged option - as a rogue, I do not qualify for using longbows, so I'm currently just using a shortbow. It's not that bad right now - it's a +8 to hit (+5 dex, +3 bab) and so I can hit fairly reliably. It's only 1d6 + 0 damage, however, which isn't nice damage. It's still good if the enemy is flat-footed, or if I'm in sneak, as 3d6 is fairly good damage at level 4. Not crazy optimized, but usable.
So my main query is - I know that an unupgraded short bow is not going to cut it soon. There are always potions of fly, scrolls of fly and the like to get me into melee against a ranged enemy, but that can be expensive, and I don't particularly like expending quite expensive resources like that every time if it can be avoided. So I was wondering (prompted by the forum threads in a similar vein, as you can guess :P) how I could be effective-ish against a flying creature, or a creature that I cannot in other ways reach. The obvious answer for a rogue is sneak attack, but that can be difficult to get consistently. If I win initiative and/or get the surprise round, I get my sneak attack, but that's not a good way to get it normally. If I'm sneaking at the start of the fight, I can get it for about 1 round normally - the penalty after sniping for being spotted is a little bit too intense, as my sneak is currently only at +11 (+5 dex, +3 ranks, + 3 from a class skill), leaving it very unlikely to stay hidden. The other ways I thought of all seem to be melee based - feinting, dirty tricks to blind and the like are all only in melee. There is the option under stealth called 'Create a Diversion to Hide', which seems to be a promising one - I have quite a decent bluff at +9, which should get past many enemies, and I'll continue with full ranks into it, a circlet of persuasion, etc, so that will scale. I can't tell if it's melee or not - there are very few rules for it, as far as I can tell.
Some parts of my progression are pretty set. My first 2 rogue talents were Trapspotting (duh) and the free Weapon Focus. My next 2 will be minor and major magic (for shield), leading to Dispelling Strike. I don't think I'd change that for ranged combat. I'm planning on getting Canny Tumble at 5th level, but that can be changed. I'd love to be able to somewhat consistently sneak-attack a flying enemy, or apply dex to damage with bows (impossible, as far as I know). At 3/4 bab I'm going to be below par just using a shortbow, and whilst it's better than 0 damage, I'd like a way to improve it.
Thanks for your help!
Arcaian
Well, Arcaian, welcome! Though, I'm probably not the best person to welcome you, considering I'm new too!
My thoughts, in spite of my general inexperience, is adding your really high dex, though a couple of feats, to some daggers for damage. The big downside here is the pitiful 10 ft. range. However, it allows you to stay rogue, but costs weapon finesse, weapon focus, and slashing grace (3 feats).
The other choice... Is five levels of Gunslinger so you can add dex to damage. If you're not crazy about guns, the bolt ace archetype adds dex to crossbow damage after five levels too.
Other than this... Most people add STRENGTH to bows with composite bows (short or long), but looking at your strength score... That's not going to help you.
Then, there are feats like deadly aim to add damage for a penalty to hit, and rapid shot and many shot to fire more arrows, but those are not fixing your initial lack of added damage.
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As a rogue, you want to utilize sneak attack on ranged too.
There are some nice feats in the Dirty Tactics Player Companion for that.
-Expert Sniper: reduce sniping penalty by 10
-Master Sniper: 2 attacks at -2 while sniping, needs rapid shot as prereq.
Heroes of the streets palyer companion also has the rogue trick "false attacker", letting you make a bluff check to have them believe someone else attacked them and you then keep cover/concealment and stealth.
Bluff is subject to GM calls and there can be a +5 to -20 on it.
Most probably you would want the typical ranged feats though:
-Point Blank
-Precise Shot
-Rapid Shot
maybe deadly aim.
I recommend investing in boni on your stealth and bluff skill.
Perhaps minor and major magic could be used for that, would have to look it up.
Remeber the UC rogue level 4 class ability though! -4 to hit or AC is a real game changer. That goes on ranged sneak attacks too.
When you can spare the cash (6-8000 gp, IIRC) a means of seeing thru fog will let you sneak attack from inside obscuring mist, vs anything which can't see thru the mist. That is a while off, true. Be careful when placing mist not to piss off your allies.
If you carry a few flasks of alchemists fire and some holy weapon balm you'll have slightly better ranged damage against certain creatures; swarms and undead respectively. Tanglefoot bags are less reliable than flight for dealing with flyers but they are cheaper.
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Well, Arcaian, welcome! Though, I'm probably not the best person to welcome you, considering I'm new too!
My thoughts, in spite of my general inexperience, is adding your really high dex, though a couple of feats, to some daggers for damage. The big downside here is the pitiful 10 ft. range. However, it allows you to stay rogue, but costs weapon finesse, weapon focus, and slashing grace (3 feats).
The other choice... Is five levels of Gunslinger so you can add dex to damage. If you're not crazy about guns, the bolt ace archetype adds dex to crossbow damage after five levels too.
Other than this... Most people add STRENGTH to bows with composite bows (short or long), but looking at your strength score... That's not going to help you.
Then, there are feats like deadly aim to add damage for a penalty to hit, and rapid shot and many shot to fire more arrows, but those are not fixing your initial lack of added damage.
My dex to damage from being an unchained rogue is currently on short swords, so you are correct that I would have to get weapon focus (dagger) and slashing grace, which is quite an expensive series. I'll get dex to damage with daggers at level 11 free as a class thing, but that's a bit too late. the 10ft range just makes this a bit difficult - It's certainly a good idea, one that I hadn't really considered before. Thanks!
I think a five level dip into gunslinger is a bit too high for this - the plan is still to stay as a rogue, just wondering if there was any obvious way to do it I'd missed! Gunslinger doesn't work well with the character concept, so I'll be fine to skip that. I realise strength to bow damage is the normal - but as an unchained rogue it makes very little sense to increase strength, and I needed it more in my con/int/cha stats. I understand it limits me. Yeah, I could take a lot of feats to still be a mediocre archer, but I'm even stuck with a 1d6 shortbow not a 1d8 longbow, would be inefficient I think.
When you can spare the cash (6-8000 gp, IIRC) a means of seeing thru fog will let you sneak attack from inside obscuring mist, vs anything which can't see thru the mist. That is a while off, true. Be careful when placing mist not to piss off your allies.
If you carry a few flasks of alchemists fire and some holy weapon balm you'll have slightly better ranged damage against certain creatures; swarms and undead respectively. Tanglefoot bags are less reliable than flight for dealing with flyers but they are cheaper.
That is a pretty good way to do it, albeit expensive - you could afford a lot of potions/scrolls of fly with that :P I'll keep it in mind.
Already carrying alchemist's fire, and yeah, I can also magic up my bow. Sadly not a permanent thing, but if that's all that can be done, then thanks :)
As a rogue, you want to utilize sneak attack on ranged too.
There are some nice feats in the Dirty Tactics Player Companion for that.-Expert Sniper: reduce sniping penalty by 10
-Master Sniper: 2 attacks at -2 while sniping, needs rapid shot as prereq.Heroes of the streets palyer companion also has the rogue trick "false attacker", letting you make a bluff check to have them believe someone else attacked them and you then keep cover/concealment and stealth.
Bluff is subject to GM calls and there can be a +5 to -20 on it.
Most probably you would want the typical ranged feats though:
-Point Blank
-Precise Shot
-Rapid Shot
maybe deadly aim.I recommend investing in boni on your stealth and bluff skill.
Perhaps minor and major magic could be used for that, would have to look it up.
Remeber the UC rogue level 4 class ability though! -4 to hit or AC is a real game changer. That goes on ranged sneak attacks too.
I can also use a skill unlock to get the sniping penalty reduced, instead of a feat. Problem is the -10 penalty still puts me at a net +1 stealth modifier, which isn't going to get me many stealth rounds. I'd need a way to get back in, which relies on the bluff check - I'm playing in society, so there must be a rule for it somewhere if it's a GM call, but can't find it.
I have full ranks in stealth and bluff. My minor magic isn't really going to go well for ranged - just a cantrip. My major magic is definitely going to be shield, which is very useful. That's a large amount of ranged feats though, just to be effective. Always a possibility, but if there was just a simple way to get a sneak attack in ranged like you can in melee it would be nicer. Oh well, thank you very much for the advice! :)
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Consider one of the attack cantrips, like Ray of Frost, since that will use your Dex mod to attack against Touch AC, and still be eligible for sneak within 30' for the bonus damage. And, as an Unchained Rogue, you get to use it like a cantrip, at will, rather than the CRB Rogues limited usage.
There is a feat available for Unchained Rogues, too, that allows you to use a spellbook to swap out your minor and major magic spell-likes for greater flexibility.
That item for seeing in fog is the Goz Mask. Tanglefoot bags are a lot more powerful, especially for a Dex-based character, than you might think. The save is against getting stuck to the ground or losing natural flight, not against getting Entangled.
The Goz mask is 8K, I'm sure there's another for 6K somewhere but I can't remember the name or source.
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Consider one of the attack cantrips, like Ray of Frost, since that will use your Dex mod to attack against Touch AC, and still be eligible for sneak within 30' for the bonus damage. And, as an Unchained Rogue, you get to use it like a cantrip, at will, rather than the CRB Rogues limited usage.
There is a feat available for Unchained Rogues, too, that allows you to use a spellbook to swap out your minor and major magic spell-likes for greater flexibility.
That item for seeing in fog is the Goz Mask. Tanglefoot bags are a lot more powerful, especially for a Dex-based character, than you might think. The save is against getting stuck to the ground or losing natural flight, not against getting Entangled.
That's the plan at the moment! I was thinking acid splash, but acid splash versus Ray of Frost is not much of a difference :) I took a while to find the feat (Bookish Rogue, for those interested) - that's really awesome, definitely taking that. Thanks! :)
Yeah, I'll definitely be bringing some Tanglefoot bags with me :D
The Goz mask is 8K, I'm sure there's another for 6K somewhere but I can't remember the name or source.
The cost puts it well beyond me at the moment - my total cash intake from all my mods is only 8k! But I'll keep it in mind for further levels :)
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I specified Ray of Frost because it is a Ray spell, so explicitly considered weapon-like. Until an FAQ or updated FAQ comes out, there is some question on damage with attack roll spells that are not either Rays or called out in the spell as weapon-like.
There are advantages to Acid Splash, of course, since skeletons won't be immune to it, unlike Ray of Frost, but there are trade-outs everywhere.
With Bookish Rogue, of course, your options can be better tailored,. like a prepared caster's can be, to what you can find out about where you are going.