Ranger - RoTR AP


Rise of the Runelords


We are starting the RotR campaign this sunday. Most of us are first timers (I played 3.0 a bit, and 4.0 once).

Having said that - we aren't 100% familiarized with the rules (I haven't been able to adjust to every change from 3.0 to PF yet).

I want to be a Ranger. I'd really like Darkvision...this makes me either a Dwarf or a Half-Orc. I would honestly probably prefer Dwarf over Half-Orc - but only if a Dwarf can be a native of Sand-point. Having said that...ultimately I really can't do a Dwarven accent very well so I would much prefer a more normal sounding race....but Dark-vision is really a must have (I did look at the Infiltrator archetype for the Undead Adaptation of Dark-vision). I'd like to role-play as being a great friend of the town (basically THEIR go-to Ranger).

We are using a 20 pt-buy system for attributes. I'd also like to keep everything above 10 (I'll be OKAY with 8 Charisma, and I'll just play it all like I'm a little gruff)

In this situation what do you think would be a good setup?

I'm not sure of what my stats should really even look like. I'm not too worried about min-maxing but...I'm also not sure what my attributes should go into upon level-up. Strength or Dex?

I wouldn't mind being a Human so I could take the trait to give my Ape 2 more Intelligence (that way he could start taking weapon proficiencies right out of the gate).

Thanks for your time.

Edit: We pretty much have all first party material. Catfolk looks like it would be OK - as long as I don't have to purr or try to talk like a Khajiit.

Silver Crusade

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Well not spoiling anything but Sandpoint already has a go to ranger. Talk to your GM about maybe having that as a link to the background of the AP.

The thing about Rangers is that they work best if you concentrate on doing one thing well, two weapons, archery, 2-H weapon that kind of thing. You can do a "switch hitter" style Ranger that does both melee and ranged but that's a bit more complex, best to stick to one style to start with.

I'm amused by your difficulties with a Dwarven accent. I'm assuming you mean a Scottish accent? Well not all Dwarves are Scottish so you could easily play with your own voice. Plus a Dwarf character in Sandpoint would be fine.

Make sure that your GM is happy with your Ape having weapon proficiencies. Not all GM's allow that, I certainly don't.

Stat wise, concentrate on Str if you are a Melee character and Dex if you prefer ranged combat. Don't neglect your Con (at least 12) and put at least 12 in Wisdom so you can cast spells at later levels.

For RotRL your best favoured enemies are Humanoid (Goblinoid), Humanoid (Giant) and Undead. The best favoured terrains are Mountain and Underground.


Dwarves from Dragon age sound like wolverine... Well at least they use the same voice actor.

While switch hitting may seem more complex, it really isn't... In fact it is a very satisfying build for a new player as you have a few more options for dealing with foes. Depending on your combat style either dwarf or half Orc could work. What is it you want to do in combat?


FallofCamelot wrote:

Well not spoiling anything but Sandpoint already has a go to ranger. Talk to your GM about maybe having that as a link to the background of the AP.

The thing about Rangers is that they work best if you concentrate on doing one thing well, two weapons, archery, 2-H weapon that kind of thing. You can do a "switch hitter" style Ranger that does both melee and ranged but that's a bit more complex, best to stick to one style to start with.

I'm amused by your difficulties with a Dwarven accent. I'm assuming you mean a Scottish accent? Well not all Dwarves are Scottish so you could easily play with your own voice. Plus a Dwarf character in Sandpoint would be fine.

Make sure that your GM is happy with your Ape having weapon proficiencies. Not all GM's allow that, I certainly don't.

Stat wise, concentrate on Str if you are a Melee character and Dex if you prefer ranged combat. Don't neglect your Con (at least 12) and put at least 12 in Wisdom so you can cast spells at later levels.

For RotRL your best favoured enemies are Humanoid (Goblinoid), Humanoid (Giant) and Undead. The best favoured terrains are Mountain and Underground.

I didn't know that Sandpoint had a Ranger already. Maybe I could be his side-kick, work with the town-guard, or be his apprentice? I'm not sure yet...Hm..

When I said I wanted to be good at numerous things; I meant skill-wise, not combat-wise. (Perception, Knowledge, Sneaking (Plus Dark Vision for super sneaky scouting), etc). I planned on at least 12 con and at least 12 Wisdom. (I'd like the bonus spells but it isn't worth using my distribution points).

Why do you not allow Apes to take feats such as the weapon proficiencies? Mainly, in Combat...I wanted to ride my companion (probably an Ape due to weapon proficiencies) when I could. (Obviously I would not be able to do this until 7th level when he becomes Large).

I'm going to be an Archer - and the DM (my friend) said as long as I don't break the campaign or make all combat completely trivialized then he'll allow me to build my Ape that way.

So 12Con/12Wis is okay?

I wanted to be an Archer and probably take some form of weapon to use against the undead when I needed to. (I would take the Lucerne but you can't take Weapon Finesse with that)...

I'm not sure if I want to take Mounted Combat at all....I feel like I'd be extremely over-powered if I rode around on my Ape and we were both using weapons..Having said that I only want him as a mount outside of combat if using him in-combat is ridiculous.

(I would feat him for a saddle slot if necessary)..


I like dwarf all except the slow speed. The AP brings you up against racial enemies so its a solid choice.


In our game we already had an Archer-type character so we replaced Shalelu (Sandpoint's aforementioned go-to Ranger) as an NPC with a Dwarven Ranger Infiltrator (20 point buy). He fought with two axes (not really optimized but very well-made) and had a wolf animal companion. He's been a lot of fun to play alongside and very, very effective so far - I'd be happy to get his build and bounce it over to you if you'd like to give it a look.

PS: One of the abilities he took as an Infiltrator fixed that pesky movement rate issue.


Nice I will take a closer look! Aren't those temporary abilities?


Dwarves sounding Scottish is entirely a WoW thing and even the WoW dwarves have terrible accents. To support Fall's suggestion - forget the Scottish accent and just go with gruff and belligerent sounding. :P

< - Scot btw

Silver Crusade

redpanda wrote:
I didn't know that Sandpoint had a Ranger already. Maybe I could be his side-kick, work with the town-guard, or be his apprentice? I'm not sure yet...Hm..

It's a her actually and she's awesome. In one of my games a PC acted kind of like her student for a while until he surpassed her in power. Have a word with your GM I'm sure it would be a good way of connecting you to Sandpoint.

redpanda wrote:
When I said I wanted to be good at numerous things; I meant skill-wise, not combat-wise. (Perception, Knowledge, Sneaking (Plus Dark Vision for super sneaky scouting), etc). I planned on at least 12 con and at least 12 Wisdom. (I'd like the bonus spells but it isn't worth using my distribution points).

Which is exactly the way to go with Rangers IMO. Their out of combat abilities are excellent.

redpanda wrote:
Why do you not allow Apes to take feats such as the weapon proficiencies? Mainly, in Combat...I wanted to ride my companion (probably an Ape due to weapon proficiencies) when I could. (Obviously I would not be able to do this until 7th level when he becomes Large).

Mainly because my interpretation of animal companions is that they are animals and think like animals regardless of their intelligence. For a Gorilla to think of using weapons would require the awaken spell after which they are not an animal really.

That said that is just my opinion and therefore is irrelevent to your game. Your GM said yes so that's fine.

redpanda wrote:
I'm going to be an Archer - and the DM (my friend) said as long as I don't break the campaign or make all combat completely trivialized then he'll allow me to build my Ape that way.

That's the right way to go about it.

redpanda wrote:
So 12Con/12Wis is okay?

I think so. You certainly doint want more than 12 in Wis. Just pick up a +2 headband of inspired wisdom at some point and you will be fine with your spells.

Some people would say a 12 Con is too low but with a 20 point buy and as you are playing an archer I say it should be fine.

redpanda wrote:
I wanted to be an Archer and probably take some form of weapon to use against the undead when I needed to. (I would take the Lucerne but you can't take Weapon Finesse with that)...

My favorite post on these boards was a response to someone who asked how to get past 10 points of damage reduction. His answer was "do 11 points of damage."

If you are an archer by all means have a melee weapon but really you should always be looking to use your arrows. Most of your feats and money will be spent on getting better with a bow so why split your focus? You don't need weapon finesse, I'll point you in the direction of some items and feats to focus on at the end of this post. Forget about melee combat that's for the fighters, barbarians and rogues of this world!

redpanda wrote:
I'm not sure if I want to take Mounted Combat at all....I feel like I'd be extremely over-powered if I rode around on my Ape and we were both using weapons..Having said that I only want him as a mount outside of combat if using him in-combat is ridiculous.

Nah not really worth it. As promised my suggestions are as follows:

Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Deadly Aim
Manyshot
Rapid Shot

Those 5 feats for an archer are essential starting with the first two. After that you can look at other options and trust me, as an archer you will have plenty of options.

Magic item wise you should look at the following:

Bracers of Falcon's Aim (be aware that this item may be put up in cost to about 12,000 gps) or Bracers of Archery.
Blunt arrows (for those pesky skeletons!)
Cold Iron arrows
Adamantine and Silver weapon blanch
Efficient Quiver
Handy Haversack (because everyone should have a Handy Haversack)
Seeker property on your bow.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Dwarf Ranger is fine: Take FE: Human at level 1, it'll carry you through 5 Chapters (goblinoids is only good for the first book), including the end boss. Alternatively, you can pick Undead...there's undead in every book.

At level 5, you want Giants, and you instantly want Giants at +4, too.

At level 10, you want Giants at +6, and either Undead or Outsider, Evil.

At level 15, you want outsider, Evil or Monstrous Humanoids, and Giants at +8.

Playing a Dwarf is fine. You're only slow until you get Longstrider, or Boots of Striding, and at 5th +, you should be hasted frequently. Note that if you get flying effects you get that speed in total, not a reduced one.

Your ideal weapon is to build towards a Giant Bane Ghost Touch Sun Sword or something similar. IF you can craft it yourself, do so!

==Aelryinth


redpanda wrote:
I didn't know that Sandpoint had a Ranger already. Maybe I could be his side-kick, work with the town-guard, or be his apprentice? I'm not sure yet...Hm..

At the risk of being cliché, as a dwarf you'd make a most interesting foil/adversary for Sandpoint's ranger. ;)

Quote:
When I said I wanted to be good at numerous things; I meant skill-wise, not combat-wise. (Perception, Knowledge, Sneaking (Plus Dark Vision for super sneaky scouting), etc). I planned on at least 12 con and at least 12 Wisdom. (I'd like the bonus spells but it isn't worth using my distribution points).

I'm playing RotRL right now as a human switch-hitting-archery-leaning ranger and I'm having a blast of a time. We had an 18-point buy so I took 14, 16, 14, 10, 14, 8 as my stats. The extra Wis and Con helps with saves and survivability and shouldn't be discounted. Dead rangers do no damage. Mind-controlled rangers are even worse.

Quote:
I wanted to be an Archer and probably take some form of weapon to use against the undead when I needed to. (I would take the Lucerne but you can't take Weapon Finesse with that)...

If it were me, I'd forgo Weapon Finesse. The image of a switch-hitting dwarf with a lucerne hammer as a backup is priceless. You have to give the weapon a name. I demand it.

The ranger class has some good archetypes so I recommend reading them all if you have the chance. If you have a party buffer or potions of bull's strength consider putting the Adaptive enchant (Ultimate Equipment) on your composite bow for only 1,000 gp (cheap!) for some extra damage.


There's an alternate racial feature for Elves that gives them Darkvision instead of Low-light vision.

On the other hand: a dwarven ranger makes a lot of sense for RotRl.


An alternative race that has Darkvision is Sylph. You can find information on them at the Paizo site here.

That said, Dwarves have the benefit of not being slowed by medium or heavy armor. So you may very well want to go with the dwarf. And you do know you can lower stats... you could be a gruff dwarf with a low charisma and who prefers dealing with animals to people. ;)


Thanks to everybody for the posts so far. Let me clarify some things I stated earlier.

I mentioned accents and Dwarves...I was in a hurry but I didn't mean the scottish accent - I meant the gruff...tone I suppose would have been the right way to put it. Whenever I attempt a gruff voice I just fail at being gruff :3.

I'm always belligerent when I play D&D.

Furthermore: I will not play an Elf or a Sylph. I despise Elves. The fact that I have two in my party sickens me. I think about betraying them every minute of every day. My half-orc pal thinks the same way.

Out of character: I don't really like the Sylph or any Elven types of characters.

Also...when I mentioned weapon finesse and the undead...I didn't actually know blunt arrows were a thing...

I get what you mean about the ape not using weapons...Some animals have developed tools for appropriate use...so I can imagine if the ape was around martial combat all of his life, raised by a Ranger defending a community, and the Ranger took it upon himself to attempt to get the Ape to understand that pointy stick = bad for the guy on the other end over years, then it makes sense....but an Ape wouldn't just be like...EUREKA! SWORD IS GOOD!

I digress. I'm not attempting to sway you or anything, just trying to show you that I'm at least thinking of reasons my Ape will be so talented...instead of just, "because magic is why my Ape uses a longsword!" (just an example).


FallofCamelot wrote:
Well not all Dwarves are Scottish so you could easily play with your own voice.

Next dwarf I play will have a thick Spanish accent - Señor Pedro Piedro, el León Negro de las minas del Sur.


I kind of wish there was a Ranger archetype that took away the animal companion and gave me something else :(. (but only because I just realized my party will have an animal Cleric AND a Druid as well as me)


redpanda wrote:
I kind of wish there was a Ranger archetype that took away the animal companion and gave me something else :(. (but only because I just realized my party will have an animal Cleric AND a Druid as well as me)

Off the top of my head there are the Guide, Warden, and Wildstalker that all replace Hunter's Bond with a different ability. Also, you can choose the variant of Hunter's Bond that allows you to spend a move action to grant half your favored enemies bonuses to all allies within 30'.


I personally never understood why dwarves were given a Scottish accent, seeing they're Nordic. I was researching other accents and was thinking of giving them a Northern English accent (as there's mining in northern England). My friend was considering giving them a Prussian accent as he can do that better.

Though if you think of it, there is one way to get around the "gruff" dwarf. Play a female dwarf. ;)

As for Half-orcs, in the new rules Half-orcs, Half-elves, and Humans have the benefit of gaining a +2 to any one stat, without a minus to other stats. Further, there are feats out there you can take to have a half-orc that appears essentially human. And there are builds for half-orcs in the Advanced Race Guide to customize them further.

Oh, and there's another race out there that has dark vision and is more... solid than the wispy sylphs: Oreads. This is basically a person with elemental heritage along the Earth lines at some point. This may very well be closer to what you're looking for.

Though mostly it seems you don't want to do the gruff dwarf. And you know something? You are the player of said character. You can play your character however you want. If you don't want to play a gruff dwarf? Don't! It's as simple as that.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

My dwarf has a French accent. A very thick, Inspector Clouseau accent. It's very hard for the NPCs to not smile at me.
AND he has darkvision.


Tangent101 wrote:

I personally never understood why dwarves were given a Scottish accent, seeing they're Nordic. I was researching other accents and was thinking of giving them a Northern English accent (as there's mining in northern England). My friend was considering giving them a Prussian accent as he can do that better.

Though if you think of it, there is one way to get around the "gruff" dwarf. Play a female dwarf. ;)

As for Half-orcs, in the new rules Half-orcs, Half-elves, and Humans have the benefit of gaining a +2 to any one stat, without a minus to other stats. Further, there are feats out there you can take to have a half-orc that appears essentially human. And there are builds for half-orcs in the Advanced Race Guide to customize them further.

Oh, and there's another race out there that has dark vision and is more... solid than the wispy sylphs: Oreads. This is basically a person with elemental heritage along the Earth lines at some point. This may very well be closer to what you're looking for.

Though mostly it seems you don't want to do the gruff dwarf. And you know something? You are the player of said character. You can play your character however you want. If you don't want to play a gruff dwarf? Don't! It's as simple as that.

I can take +2 to a second stat as a Human as an alternate racial trait. I'm leaning more towards Dwarf right now though. I'll check out the other Ranger archetypes.

Edit: I don't like those archetypes. Oh well!

Dark Archive

I have both GM'ed the whole campaign and played though it.

Getting darkvision is VERY very very smart.
I would say that the best choises for this AP is:

Wizard, cleric, paladin and ranger.


Saganen Hellheart wrote:

I have both GM'ed the whole campaign and played though it.

Getting darkvision is VERY very very smart.
I would say that the best choises for this AP is:

Wizard, cleric, paladin and ranger.

Quick question...Could it possibly be better to be a Beastmaster Ranger (Human) and use an animal companion as my Scout...and make them have Darkvision?

Edit: I see there are no darkvision companions...but there are blindsense ones at 7th. These however are too large for scouting...


redpanda wrote:
Saganen Hellheart wrote:

I have both GM'ed the whole campaign and played though it.

Getting darkvision is VERY very very smart.
I would say that the best choises for this AP is:

Wizard, cleric, paladin and ranger.

Quick question...Could it possibly be better to be a Beastmaster Ranger (Human) and use an animal companion as my Scout...and make them have Darkvision?

Edit: I see there are no darkvision companions...but there are blindsense ones at 7th. These however are too large for scouting...

Heh - dip a level of Sunmoner. Customizable scout eidolon with dark vision AND the ability to communicate telepathically.


Damocles Guile wrote:
redpanda wrote:
Saganen Hellheart wrote:

I have both GM'ed the whole campaign and played though it.

Getting darkvision is VERY very very smart.
I would say that the best choises for this AP is:

Wizard, cleric, paladin and ranger.

Quick question...Could it possibly be better to be a Beastmaster Ranger (Human) and use an animal companion as my Scout...and make them have Darkvision?

Edit: I see there are no darkvision companions...but there are blindsense ones at 7th. These however are too large for scouting...

Heh - dip a level of Sunmoner. Customizable scout eidolon with dark vision AND the ability to communicate telepathically.

I was hoping to be able to get an Owl or something and find a way to give them Darkvision...and reduce them. I guess I could look into a Summoner multi-class.

It's just too bad that while looking through your companions' eyes you're considered blinded (50% miss chance).

I would love to role-play a blind ranger who can only see through his birds' eyes (and this bird stays perched on his shoulder, for example).

Oh well!

Edit: See in Darkness is a 9th level Eidolon Evolution...so that's ruled out. I have to decide within 2 hours or so!


redpanda wrote:
Damocles Guile wrote:
redpanda wrote:
Saganen Hellheart wrote:

I have both GM'ed the whole campaign and played though it.

Getting darkvision is VERY very very smart.
I would say that the best choises for this AP is:

Wizard, cleric, paladin and ranger.

Quick question...Could it possibly be better to be a Beastmaster Ranger (Human) and use an animal companion as my Scout...and make them have Darkvision?

Edit: I see there are no darkvision companions...but there are blindsense ones at 7th. These however are too large for scouting...

Heh - dip a level of Sunmoner. Customizable scout eidolon with dark vision AND the ability to communicate telepathically.

I was hoping to be able to get an Owl or something and find a way to give them Darkvision...and reduce them. I guess I could look into a Summoner multi-class.

It's just too bad that while looking through your companions' eyes you're considered blinded (50% miss chance).

I would love to role-play a blind ranger who can only see through his birds' eyes (and this bird stays perched on his shoulder, for example).

Oh well!

Edit: See in Darkness is a 9th level Eidolon Evolution...so that's ruled out. I have to decide within 2 hours or so!

Edit: Oh I see where the Eidolon gets Dark Vision now. I have NO idea how I missed that..

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