Sorry, I don't remember the exact wording, and wording is important here, but I don't own the game. Still, this question was brought up on several occasions, so maybe someone with the game can help me. Basically this helm lets you ignore a before you act (BYA) power on a monster. It was not perfectly clear to us when you can use it and who it can affect.
- e.g. if a BYA power deals damage to all characters at your location, does it protect only you or all characters?
- also, if a BYA power forces everyone at your location to pass a check or face some bad consequences, does the helm protect you alone, or does it protect all characters?
- also, can you play the helm only during your own encounter? Can you use it to protect yourself from a BYA power on a monster encountered by someone else? (I don't remember the wording, maybe it was quite clear, but I thought I'd ask, just in case)
This card says:
Recharge this card to ignore a non-villain monster's power that happens before you act.
You raise good questions. I'm not sure of the answers.
I would play this that you can only use this power when you encounter a monster, and the power only helps you.
I would say that this falls in the "implied you" category. So that it can be read:
You Recharge this card for you to ignore a non-villain monster's power that happens before you act.
What elcoderdude said.
See this FAQ. In that hypothetical BYA power, everyone else at your location would still be impacted by the power.
Correct. Since the card specifies "you", it can be used on any BYA that affects you, but it only prevents from affecting you. Something that affects multiple players still affects everyone else.
Actually, in the text elcoderdude provided above, the card does not specify "you". But in any case I can see that there is a general agreement that (1) it affects only you, and (2) it can be played during another player's encounter.
Thanks to everyone who took time to answer!
One last question - if a monster tells me to pass a BYA check or everyone at my location is dealt X damage, what happens if I play the Helm? Do I skip BYA altogether, or do I still have to try to pass the check and other characters are dealt the damage if I fail?
If a monster tells me to pass a BYA check or everyone at my location is dealt X damage, what happens if I play the Helm? Do I skip BYA altogether, or do I still have to try to pass the check and other characters are dealt the damage if I fail?
Do you have an example of such a monster? I can't think of one.
One last question - if a monster tells me to pass a BYA check or everyone at my location is dealt X damage, what happens if I play the Helm? Do I skip BYA altogether, or do I still have to try to pass the check and other characters are dealt the damage if I fail?
I'd play it as:
If only YOU must succeed at the check - you ignore the power completely. (other players are not subject of the BYA, their damage is only triggered by you dealing with the BYA)
If - hypothetically - "all players must succeed at Check X, or all players are dealt Damage Y" - I would skip the check, but I also would not count myself towards the number of "all players"
If a monster tells me to pass a BYA check or everyone at my location is dealt X damage, what happens if I play the Helm? Do I skip BYA altogether, or do I still have to try to pass the check and other characters are dealt the damage if I fail?Do you have an example of such a monster? I can't think of one.
Alderpash's Ghoul
Before you act, succeed at an Intelligence or Arcane 14 check or each character at your location is dealt 1d4+1 Combat damage.
I'd say, if you were the one encountering the card, you'd be the one having to attempt the Intelligence/Arcane check. So, if you played the Decemvirate Helm, you get to ignore that, which means no one has to take the damage.
If - hypothetically - "all players must succeed at Check X, or all players are dealt Damage Y" - I would skip the check, but I also would not count myself towards the number of "all players"
If you could somehow skip your check, then all players didn't succeed. Sort of like evading a summoned henchman from a barrier that says "If all the summoned henchman are not defeated, the barrier is undefeated."
Some of the discussion here is whether this is "a power that happens in the before you act space of an encounter" or "a power that happens before you in particular act". There is similar discussion here.
Actually I would argue that saying "before you act" specifies you, magnitt
But in this case, do you think you can still play the Helm during someone else's encounter? If BYA just refers to the step, it seems OK, because BYA step still happens, even if you yourself are not going to act. But if "before you act" here specifies you, then I would say you cannot play the Helm, because you, specifically, are not going to act.
Earlier I said there is a general agreement, but somehow I missed Ripe's post above who doesn't agree with others.
But I tend to agree with most other posters, in that the Helm affects only you and you can play it during someone else's encounter to shield yourself from some bad effects.
Still, I think it would be much cleaner if it were the other way around, that is if you could only play it during your own encounter and if it allowed you to completely ignore BYA for everyone, virtually removing the power from the card. Otherwise you repeatedly stumble into situation when it is not quite clear what the Helm does in a particular situation.
Take, for example, the Dominion Scientist:
Before you act, each character is dealt 2 Force damage; for each card discarded due to this damage, the difficulty of checks against Dominion Scientist is increased by 1
In this particular case the damage taken by other players may affect the difficulty of your check.
Think of the upcoming digital version of the game - I suspect it would be quite difficult to implement the Helm's power correctly in each such case.
If - hypothetically - "all players must succeed at Check X, or all players are dealt Damage Y" - I would skip the check, but I also would not count myself towards the number of "all players"If you could somehow skip your check, then all players didn't succeed. Sort of like evading a summoned henchman from a barrier that says "If all the summoned henchman are not defeated, the barrier is undefeated."
I was coming from the fact that I'm not evading, but rather ignoring the effect, but I get your meaning. Come to think of it, I would ignore the check, the rest of the party will be screwed, but I'll also ignore my share of the damage.
In the same way, I'd treat Magnitt's Dominion Scientist as:
I encounter the Scientist, I ignore the 2 Dmg, everybody else takes 2 Dmg, I ignore the difficulty rise of MY check.
Sorry guys for continuing this topic but here goes Incubus:
"Before you act, another character at your location summons and encounters this adventure servitor demon.
- If I encounter this guy I cannot play the Helm since it can only protect me, right?
- Another character in my location can play the Helm to cancel this BYA power, right?- If there are several other characters in my location, can we choose the character with the Helm so that he can cancel this BYA power?
Sorry guys for continuing this topic but here goes Incubus:
"Before you act, another character at your location summons and encounters this adventure servitor demon.- If I encounter this guy I cannot play the Helm since it can only protect me, right?
- Another character in my location can play the Helm to cancel this BYA power, right?
- If there are several other characters in my location, can we choose the character with the Helm so that he can cancel this BYA power?
1. Correct. Ignoring a power doesn't mean the power never happens, it just means it has no effect on you in particular. If the power affects other people, it still affects them as normal.
2. Correct. If they play it it allows them to ignore that power. I can provide rules references for why I believe the helm is playable on someone else's BYA step later if this starts getting debated, don't have tons of time right now.
3. No. The character playing the helm ignores the entire power, meaning he cannot choose to be the "another character" because according to him, that power doesn't exist. A character that did not play the helm would be subject to the servitor demon. If all other characters at that location played the helm, then it would pass without effect.
3. No. The character playing the helm ignores the entire power, meaning he cannot choose to be the "another character" because according to him, that power doesn't exist. A character that did not play the helm would be subject to the servitor demon. If all other characters at that location played the helm, then it would pass without effect.
When I first read this I thought my head would burst! But in the end I think this makes sense :) Thank you, skizzerz!
Sorry guys for continuing this topic but here goes Incubus:
"Before you act, another character at your location summons and encounters this adventure servitor demon.- If I encounter this guy I cannot play the Helm since it can only protect me, right?
- Another character in my location can play the Helm to cancel this BYA power, right?
- If there are several other characters in my location, can we choose the character with the Helm so that he can cancel this BYA power?...skizzerz's answers...
This doesn't seem to make sense to me.
I would have thought that it is my encounter so I can play the Helm to ignore this monster's power and therefore no one has to summon and encounter the demon.
That would be counter to what you wrote though.
I'm willing to be shown wrong, but it seems to me that the common sense reading of the Helm's power is that *I* encounter the Incubus so *I* ignore the BYA power and no one has to encounter the demon.
See the FAQ I linked above; ignoring the BYA only means you ignore its effects on you, not that the thing you're ignoring never happens at all.
To reproduce the text:
if a card tells you to ignore something, the thing you’re ignoring never has any effect on you
The BYA power on Incubus doesn't have any effect on you to begin with, so you ignoring it does nothing.
Also, as far as my answers go, I can see #3 going both ways. My answer is just how I personally would play it.
See the FAQ I linked above; ignoring the BYA only means you ignore its effects on you, not that the thing you're ignoring never happens at all.
To reproduce the text:
if a card tells you to ignore something, the thing you’re ignoring never has any effect on youThe BYA power on Incubus doesn't have any effect on you to begin with, so you ignoring it does nothing.
Also, as far as my answers go, I can see #3 going both ways. My answer is just how I personally would play it.
Okay, I can now read it that way. Not sure what changed between me reading it before you posted and after, but I see what you are saying and agree with your answers to #1 and #2. Not sure about #3 yet - it seems like you *could* choose the player with the Helm who would then ignore the power. The alternative is that I'm playing the Helm semi-spitefully "ha ha, I play the Helm, so you guys can't choose me!" which seems counter to any other card/power combo.