Can the Mythic Trickster move outside of Encounters?


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


The Mythic Trickster has a move based power:

Mythic Trickster wrote:
Add your number of mythic charges to your Dexterity or Intelligence check. Then you may expend 1 or more charges. If you do, after you assemble your dice, for each charge expended, replace 1 of your highest non-d20 dice with a d20, after the encounter, you may move, ignoring any movement restrictions.

Can I still move if the I activate that power while not in an encounter?

Like if a location calls for a Dexterity check to close, can I spend mythic charge to gain the D20 on that check, and after I make the closing check, move?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You can certainly spend charges on Dex/Int checks outside of encounters, but as written, I'd say doing so would not allow you to move. You ignore impossible instructions per the golden rule, and in this case the impossible instruction is "after the encounter, you may move, ignoring any movement restrictions" because there is no encounter.


There are plenty of times where you encounter cards off turn (Arboreal Blight, Demonic Hordes, etc.). I'd say that in those cases, you can definitely move.

In the case of closing a location, I'd say it depends on what the closing conditions are. If it's as described in the OP, I'd say that you couldn't move. If you are required to summon something to close the location, I'd say you could move.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Verifying designers' intent.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

The intent is what it says: The movement effect works only within an encounter.

As far as the wording goes, we do that sort of thing quite a lot. The example that immediately springs to mind is bane weapons, which say "For your combat check, use [skill]; if the monster has [trait], [bonus]." It's possible that you're attempting a combat check against something that's not a monster, in which case you just don't get to apply that bit.


Vic Wertz wrote:

The intent is what it says: The movement effect works only within an encounter.

As far as the wording goes, we do that sort of thing quite a lot. The example that immediately springs to mind is bane weapons, which say "For your combat check, use [skill]; if the monster has [trait], [bonus]." It's possible that you're attempting a combat check against something that's not a monster, in which case you just don't get to apply that bit.

Why not:

"For your combat check, use [skill]; if it's a monster with [trait], [bonus]."?

Admittedly I can't see how you could change the wording of the Mythic Trickster in an analogous way though, i.e. without adding a lot of usually irrelevant words.


Alliteration wrote:

The Mythic Trickster has a move based power:

Mythic Trickster wrote:
Add your number of mythic charges to your Dexterity or Intelligence check. Then you may expend 1 or more charges. If you do, after you assemble your dice, for each charge expended, replace 1 of your highest non-d20 dice with a d20, after the encounter, you may move, ignoring any movement restrictions.

Can I still move if the I activate that power while not in an encounter?

Like if a location calls for a Dexterity check to close, can I spend mythic charge to gain the D20 on that check, and after I make the closing check, move?

I may be wrong, but here's how I see this:

- If you attempt to close a location as the result of defeating a henchman, that check would be still a part of your encounter with the henchman, thus you would be able to move after the encounter is over (and possibly do some more explores if you have allies or blessings).

- If you attempt to close an empty location during the Close a Location step, which happens after your Explore step and just before End Your Turn step, you cannot move since you are not having an encounter. But even if you could, you wouldn't be able to explore anymore because your Explore step would be already finished by that time, and you cannot explore outside your Explore step.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
magnitt wrote:
Alliteration wrote:

The Mythic Trickster has a move based power:

Mythic Trickster wrote:
Add your number of mythic charges to your Dexterity or Intelligence check. Then you may expend 1 or more charges. If you do, after you assemble your dice, for each charge expended, replace 1 of your highest non-d20 dice with a d20, after the encounter, you may move, ignoring any movement restrictions.

Can I still move if the I activate that power while not in an encounter?

Like if a location calls for a Dexterity check to close, can I spend mythic charge to gain the D20 on that check, and after I make the closing check, move?

I may be wrong, but here's how I see this:

- If you attempt to close a location as the result of defeating a henchman, that check would be still a part of your encounter with the henchman, thus you would be able to move after the encounter is over (and possibly do some more explores if you have allies or blessings).

- If you attempt to close an empty location during the Close a Location step, which happens after your Explore step and just before End Your Turn step, you cannot move since you are not having an encounter. But even if you could, you wouldn't be able to explore anymore because your Explore step would be already finished by that time, and you cannot explore outside your Explore step.

Looks right to me, except that encounters can happen outside of your explore step, indeed even outside of your turn, and you can move during those too. You cannot explore outside of your explore step though.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Irgy wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:

The intent is what it says: The movement effect works only within an encounter.

As far as the wording goes, we do that sort of thing quite a lot. The example that immediately springs to mind is bane weapons, which say "For your combat check, use [skill]; if the monster has [trait], [bonus]." It's possible that you're attempting a combat check against something that's not a monster, in which case you just don't get to apply that bit.

Why not:

"For your combat check, use [skill]; if it's a monster with [trait], [bonus]."?

Admittedly I can't see how you could change the wording of the Mythic Trickster in an analogous way though, i.e. without adding a lot of usually irrelevant words.

If we wanted to word it the long way (and indeed we did on some older cards), it would be "For your combat check, use [skill]; if the check is against a monster that has [trait], [bonus]." But we decided it's not worth the verbiage (especially since nobody ever questioned it until I pointed it out).


If a short text is clear, it's always better than a long one.
Some French philosopher long ago said something like that :-)


Irgy wrote:

Why not:

"For your combat check, use [skill]; if it's a monster with [trait], [bonus]."?

Admittedly I can't see how you could change the wording of the Mythic Trickster in an analogous way though, i.e. without adding a lot of usually irrelevant words.

cause it doesn't make sense. It in this case would be referring to the combat check.


Vic Wertz wrote:
If we wanted to word it the long way (and indeed we did on some older cards), it would be "For your combat check, use [skill]; if the check is against a monster that has [trait], [bonus]." But we decided it's not worth the verbiage (especially since nobody ever questioned it until I pointed it out).

Yes sorry I meant to have the "against" in what I wrote, and I can see why you'd avoid the pronoun, and that the end result is a lot of words. Thanks, I agree with your choice but glad I asked anyway.

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