| 12 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It has been hotly contested in one of our PbP Games (and at other times) as to whether or not an animated object continues to have the properties of an object (in addition to the construct traits that it gains). Specifically, objects take half damage from most energy attacks (and then apply hardness) and are immune to critical hits, whereas constructs are not (construct traits are here).
In the bestiary, an animated object is called out as a construct, here. Constructs have a series of their own traits.
However, our GM (and others), notably in PFS have ruled that they are also treated as objects and have inanimate object properties as described in the Core Rules, here under 'Smashing an Object'.
It should be noted also that, while animated objects do get a mention in the above section, that mention also says not to treat animated objects as inanimate objects (but leaves it ambiguous as to whether it is for just AC purposes):
Animated Objects: Animated objects count as creatures for purposes of determining their Armor Class (do not treat them as inanimate objects).
My feeling is that the above section and rules for objects are for smashing a regular inanimate object (it is called 'smashing an object' after all), and that animated objects cease to become objects upon creation and become constructs (per the spell animate objects). Otherwise, animated objects are far too powerful.
Since animated objects can be made using craft construct, it is reasonable to assume that they are constructs only and no longer objects, right? Otherwise, perhaps you could break an animated object with a strength check... or give them the 'broken' condition. It doesn't seem to fit.
Suffice it to say, it is currently ambiguous based on the rules I have found, and I'd like to know for sure.
---
So, can anyone help? I'm looking for Rules as Written or some kind of clarification (perhaps an FAQ?) to clarify this point for the future... especially in PFS where one has to stick to RAW and not the GM's ruling.
Please do not say that because the name is "animated object" it is an object, because a boreal wolf is not an animal (like a "wolf" is), it is a magical beast. Things that affect only the animal type (like ranger's favored enemies) should not affect the boreal wolf. The names of things don't seem to make a difference in Pathfinder, so I'm after only Rules As Written. I'm also not interested in the standard PFS "expect table variation" fob off either: I know that I need to expect variation, but I really do want to get to the bottom of this.
So, please respond with RAW if you have it. Not to be indelicate, but unless you are a developer, your opinion doesn't matter to me . Please point me to the rules if you have some that shed light on the matter... or hit the "FAQ" link to mark this as an FAQ candidate if you agree that you'd also like an official ruling.
Thanks for the FAQ bumps everyone. Keep 'em coming. So no-one else out there has any additional RAW to shed any light on this one? Even something I've perhaps missed in the above?
Considering the way the rules are usually constructed you would need specific rules stating that an animated object retained object traits. animated objects are by definition creatures and not objects. The stat block for animated objects call out that they have hardness, but make no mention of either being treated as an object or of taking reduced damage from energy attacks/ranged attacks.
PRD:
You imbue inanimate objects with mobility and a semblance of life. Each such animated object then immediately attacks whomever or whatever you initially designate.
An animated object can be of any nonmagical material. You may animate one Small or smaller object or a corresponding number of larger objects as follows: A Medium object counts as two Small or smaller objects, a Large object as four, a Huge object as eight, a Gargantuan object as 16, and a Colossal object as 32. You can change the designated target or targets as a move action, as if directing an active spell. See the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary for the statistics of animated objects.
This spell cannot affect objects carried or worn by a creature. Animate objects can be made permanent with a permanency spell.
Not sure why the bold is not in the PRD linked, as it is not in any errata for the CRB. The SRD and Archives of Nethys have the same text.
Anyway, the spell gives it the stats called out by the bestiary. It does not ADD the stats, but replaces the stats. While it is a construct, it is NOT an object, and does not benefit or suffer from an object's characteristics. For example, it is not broken at half it points.
/cevah
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Anyway, the spell gives it the stats called out by the bestiary. It does not ADD the stats, but replaces the stats. While it is a construct, it is NOT an object, and does not benefit or suffer from an object's characteristics. For example, it is not broken at half it points.
This makes the most sense to me... An thing should not be able to have animated object traits non-animated object traits.
I would offer the standard for all Paizo monsters that a monster cannot have more than one type. For example, a Chupacabra is a small magical beast. If it were somehow killed and raised as an undead chupacabra, its type becomes undead, not undead and magical beast.
Therefore, an animated object should lose its non-animated object traits (ie - should not take half damage from energy and then still apply hardness)
Its not specific RAW, but it is a standard for Paizo monsters and I think it applies in this case. Just my 2 copper!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thanks for the feedback, all.
@dragonhunterhq & cevah: That is my understanding also. The GMs I've played with and heard about say that the spell description doesn't say anywhere that it doesn't cease to be an "object" per the rules in the CRB.
However...
@Cevah: Interesting that the text there is missing from the PRD. I'm not sure if it would change their ruling, but it certainly does support the "no double-dipping" argument.
@PapaSteve08: quite right about the undead thing. Nowhere is "animated object" a template that adds to abilities, so it should just change type.
The more we delve, the less I like the ruling... but since it is PFS, and there is table variation I would still dearly love for it to be in the FAQ to squash such rulings (treating them as inanimate objects and animated objects).
Keep on hitting that "FAQ" button, and thanks!
Suffice it to say that, in my PFS games, inanimate object rules won't apply to animated objects (unless and until the FAQ contradicts me). In my non-PFS games, they never will.