|
Consider: 5 player table. Best PC has a good one of the skills for the research DC (or is it RC). They can do is 1d8 points per success. On average it's going to take them 5 days to finish all the research in the library if they succeed every day. If we split the party into to shifts, first shift morning-afternoon, 2 PCs then rest. Second shift afternoon-evening, 3 PCs then rest. You get two tries per day. Now the best they can do is 2d8 points per day. This is the type of "creative solutions" that is referenced to in the GtOP:
Pathfinder Society Organized Play never wants to give the impression that the only way to solve a problem is to kill it—rewarding the creative use of skills and roleplaying not only make Society games more fun for the players, but it also gives the GM a level of flexibility in ensuring players receive the rewards they are due.
It seems like the authors line "treat this instead as a creative solution that can grant a bonus on the Research check" is a way to get around the intend of creative solutions. The author does not want to allow creative solutions that might speed up the process. This just rubs me the wrong way.
I interpreted "Finally, this adventure assumes that the PCs are able to research for one 8-hour period per day for the purpose of calculating the adventure's secondary success conditions." that the PCs are able to. I.E. that they may be able to do more, but that the secondary success condition was calculate/created base on one success per day.
With only one attempt per day, it seems most parties will not have the ability to meet the very short time span required to meet the secondary success criteria when only being allowed a maximum of one success per day.
Just My Thoughts
Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
|
Working for longer hours is the least creative solution to a problem.
Research checks are a mechanic. One that is balanced by certain expectations. You wouldn't let a PC make extra attacks in a round for a "creative solution," but you might give them a circumstance bonus to hit.
Not everyone can achieve secondary success conditions. Sometimes you'll get lucky, some times you won't. Degree of success is also very helpful for speeding up that process. Well-equipped parties should make it easily, others will rely on luck.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Working for longer hours is the least creative solution to a problem.
Research checks are a mechanic. One that is balanced by certain expectations. You wouldn't let a PC make extra attacks in a round for a "creative solution," but you might give them a circumstance bonus to hit.
No, but I would let everyone have an opportunity to make an attack in combat.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
Oh, right. Every single PC only works for 8 hours per day, but they're divided into 2-3 shifts that work alternately. Because research can't be parallelized, but you could have alternating teams.
That seems really obvious when you look at it, and would have been nice in our game; over about 8 checks I was always the leader of the winning team. Alternating shifts would have let the players in the rival team make a real contribution while I slept.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
|
I'm running this tomorrow with my core group, filling in for our usual GM. I'm really excited that I get to learn some secrets about my companions I have been running the Emerald Spire with, while they don't get to learn about mine (Muahaha!).
A question though, when a PC dies in the dreamscape they wake up, but if someone were to use an impossible feat to cast Resurrection, would you say the spell fails and let them waste it, or just say nothing happens and let them keep the feat? I guess it would probably be easier if their body disappears as soon as they die, preventing someone from trying it, but what do you think?
Also, would it be too brutal if I led the PCs to believe they had died for real, but once they all escape the dream they find out they're still alive? I think it would make them fight harder in the final encounter if they thought if they die in the dream, they die in real life.
It definitely runs the risk of aggravating players if you don't tell them beforehand. There's another high-tier (7-11) scenario that has a dreamscape fight like this one, and in that one, the opponent starts the battle by casting weird. One of the PCs got caught in it and their player nearly walked out of the game in outrage due to "impossibly unfair tactics". It took a moment for me to calm him down and reassure him that everything would be okay in a moment.
If you know your players and can trust them to not metagame, tell them that their characters will be fine, but the characters themselves don't know that. If they understand the situation, they'll play like their characters are in mortal peril like they believe they are.
I would absolutely allow someone who could emulate Wish or Miracle to pull a "dead" PC back into the dream. Resurrection fails because the body vanishes and the spell requires a body. True resurrection would be fine, too. Basically if you can nail a 9th level impossible feat it deserves to be amazing.
|
Please use DC 20 in Subtier 5–6 and DC 25 in Subtier 8–9.
Thanks. This info was very helpful.
Paizo: In this scenario, the grid lines on the dreamscape map are not equally spaced/aligned. There is also slight misalignment in the sealed wing map in a couple of places. I have noticed this problem on other Season 7 assets. It would be great if you could release a version of the PDF that fixes these issues.
Also, you may want to add a review step to check map grids, since it has happened with other maps, as above (for example, see my comments in the Sun Orchid Scheme thread). When using VTT software, there is no way to get the VTT gridlines (which are perfectly aligned) to line up with the (randomly incorrect) PDF map grids. Thanks for looking into this issue.
Otherwise, I had a successful run and the table had a fun time, especially with the dreamscape super-powers!
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
Having just read the scenario, it says right in the scenario that the shifts are abstractions. If a PC has an ability that lets the work longer shifts, they get a bonus of up to +5 for creative solution or power. If two teams are working during the same day, you take whichever one got the best result.
|
Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
|
I'll be running this on Wednesday, I have a question: Should I warn my players about the wild magic zone? I do plan on showing a visual effect, like multicoloured dust particles floating in the air and clinging to their magic items, but straight up telling about it seems like it'll take away too much of the surprise. Then again, it's even more sucky to not say anything about it at all and have their spells blow up in their face.
|
When I ran it (including for you, Quentin), I described the visual effects. Then, when the PC's asked about it, I allowed a Knowledge Arcana check to find out about it (even though the scenario doesn't talk about how one should be able to find out about it). I had set the check at 20 for low tier, and 25 for high (so equal to the research checks).
Because you're right, not telling them could be seen as a "gotcha" moment. But outright telling them not only takes away the surprise, but is also a bit against the story in my feeling. The liberary staff (aka magi, wizards, etc) has no idea what exactly is going on in that wing, and have sent for an expert from Nex. If pathfinders could immediately identify it, they wouldn't have gone through the trouble of contacting such a person (as Pathfinder Headquarters is in Absolom as well).
Then, even if they fail the check and the magic eventually blows up in their face, they can still learn to do something about it. Describe how the "zone" interacts with their magic weaving. I had the "blobs" respond badly by the sudden somatic component that touched it. If they cannot figure out what exactly is going on, that image might instill some creative thinking. If they then ask if they could avoid that interaction, state something like: "You could, but that would require a concentration check." That way, you could implement the way to circumvent the backlash, without giving it away immediately at the beginning of the zone.
And if your party is anything like when you played, the first thing that they do is either cast Detect Magic, or cast Guidance on the one who is going to do the check. You might also wanna ask how they are going to heal themselves, because the Cure Light Wounds wand almost caused a TPK.
|
Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
|
This popped up as I GMed this yesterday: in the dreamscape, research is said to take 8 minutes, rather than 8 hours. Does this mean that people can keep retrying their knowledge checks without being tired, or is that 8 minutes in the real world and still 8 hours in the dreamscape (meaning, resting after 1 research check)? I ruled in favour of the players, so they could keep on researching (and short-term buffs would help, provided that it lasted more than 8 minutes), but even if it isn't, they made it through the research checks quickly enough to not have failed the second prestige point.
Also, this is such an awesome scenario. Probably my favourite. Thanks for writing it, Robert Brookes!
