Weakness of a quad gestalt class

[My Self]

How weak is a Warrior//Adept//Expert//Aristocrat? Compared to regular player classes, not other gestalt classes.

Just for kicks, you could 5x gestalt into Commoner, but I don't see how that helps you in any way.

HD: d10
BAB: Full
Strong saves: Fort and Will

Skills: 6+INT per level

Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Heal (Wis), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), and Survival (Wis). The (gestalt) expert can choose any 10 skills to be class skills.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The (gestalt) warrior is proficient in the use of all simple and martial weapons and with all types of armor and shields.

Spellcasting: Divine, levels 0-5, very limited spell list. See Adept page for more.

Class Feature: Summon Familiar

[Falcar]

It looks like it would be weaker than a paladin or ranger, the spell casting is (very slightly) better in terms of the level of the spells it can cast. It has a lot of class skills but it still "only" has 6+INT skills/LVL. The saves are like a paladin (without Divine Grace). The biggest flaw here is its a boring class, it has all of one (relatively weak) class feature outside of minor spell casting. It is still an NPC, a better NPC than others of course but not much. The NPC classes are designed to be low power and just do not match up. I am sure it would be decent but would be outshine in most regards.

[John Woodford]

That's a weird combo--d10s, two strong saves, one weak save, full BAB, 5 levels of divine spellcasting, 6+INT skill ranks...and no class specials or extra feats. I'm thinking that the latter will make it weaker than most PC classes at all levels.

[Faelyn]

Yeah, the weakness is that it's four different classes that cannot do anything better combined than any normal PC class can do. The lack of special features is the biggest downfall... Every single 6th level spellcasting class would dominate this combo with one hand. Those potential 2 extra HP is not going to help (and only 1 HP if you're using average HP), and the full BAB can easily be overcome by pretty much every 3/4 BAB class w/ 6th level casting.

[My Self]

John Woodford wrote:

That's a weird combo--d10s, two strong saves, one weak save, full BAB, 5 levels of divine spellcasting, 6+INT skill ranks...and no class specials or extra feats. I'm thinking that the latter will make it weaker than most PC classes at all levels.

It might be able to hold its own at 1st level, considering it has 3x the class skill points and a spell per day more than the Fighter, instead of having a bonus feat. And has Sleep on the spell list. But beyond that, yeah, it's weak. But you're wrong about it having no class features- it has a familiar. A single class feature. (because that totally makes up for having absolutely nothing else :P)

[John Woodford]

My Self wrote:

John Woodford wrote:

That's a weird combo--d10s, two strong saves, one weak save, full BAB, 5 levels of divine spellcasting, 6+INT skill ranks...and no class specials or extra feats. I'm thinking that the latter will make it weaker than most PC classes at all levels.

It might be able to hold its own at 1st level, considering it has 3x the class skill points and a spell per day more than the Fighter, instead of having a bonus feat. And has Sleep on the spell list. But beyond that, yeah, it's weak. But you're wrong about it having no class features- it has a familiar. A single class feature. (because that totally makes up for having absolutely nothing else :P)

Totally! You get Alertness out of it, plus some minor skill or save bonus...yeah, that's worth so much -_-.

[JuanAdriel]

It can be compared "reasonably" to a fighter, you can make a decent two-handed melee, with some spells and more skills instead of feats and class features. A bit of meh because it can be pretty MAD. Altought having mirror image for a melee can be interesting.

And really, you can throw the aristocrat out. You don't need those all class skills.
With the ones from the warrior, adept and the 10 you can choose from the expert, and "only" 6+int for a MAD character, you have more than enough.

IMHO.

[christos gurd]

maybe try this on for size to get a more rounded out class idea, the entire time Scott was writing that I was referring to it as super NPC the class.