Hello everyone!
My group (5 PCs) is pretty strong but got really unlucky rolls last session. At the beginning, they spent a week near Jongerfist during which they killed longtooth, cleared the 2 other caves and gathered whatever intel they could from observing and scouting. Then, they entered the pit and using buffs,teleportation and invisibility in a clever way they bypassed the first level because they thought (correctly imo) that it would be crazy to start killing stuff without any clue about how many ennemies there are generally under the fort. Anyway..long story short they decided to teleport at the first room of the second level and got unlucky(3 PCs didnt save against fear effect)..they killed the runeslave , stone golem , headless lord and the annoying forgefiend but they spent all their resources and were not in a position to take big M down. So they fled...
Now, I want you to know that I really succeeded in making Mokmurian sound as a real badass and clever opponent, so I dont want to dissapoint them with an easy battle. In the other hand , the last session made me wonder what should I prep and how should I play mokmurians reaction to this intrusion.
For me its only logical that Mokmurian (being clever transmuter) should at least :
1) change the rooms , so that they cannot TP right in front of his lab
2) call most ( or some) of his minions to fill the empty rooms (maybe lokansir and the lamias?)
3) sound an alarm , that jongerfist is under some kind of attack.
Considering that my group is still at level 11 , due to bypassing most encounters and being 5, do you people think this is too much for them?? Does anyone have any experience from his ROTR game?? I know there are threads similar to this one but still...I really cant decide what would be best , and I would like to avoid a TPK..
Thanks in advance!:)
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Remember, teleport has a hard limit of people that can come with the caster - one per three caster levels, which is three at 11th level. It will take three castings to get the party there - one to take most of the PCs, one to go back, and one to return with the remainder. So, all but one PC can come with the caster in that first casting, so the best plan would be to have the library level's major rooms covered by his allies, and have some set up against invisible opponents - assuming he knows they bypassed his security above using some form of invisibility. I don't have his spell list available, or that of the lamias, so I don't know what options he has to work with.
His spell list is extensive; he has basically any spell from the Core Rulebook up to 6th level that you want him to have that isn't one of his barred schools (enchantment, illusion).
That means one of his options is Guards and Wards, which I think would be a good first step. A Symbol of Pain placed at their likely teleport destination would also be a nasty surprise.
Otherwise you can see his Morale entry for what he's likely to do; calling in the lamias is certainly likely. He also has time to make a few runeslaves with the cauldron. I think that would be more his style than having living giants standing guard down below where they might learn stuff he doesn't want them to know.
When I ran this fight, I had Mokmurian use Planar Binding to call a Glabrezu, who used Veil to appear to be Mokmurian. When the PCs entered the room, they couldn't tell which was the real giant wizard.
For added fun, the Glabrezu offered PCs in distress the chance to get a Wish. I was going to have Mokmurian request it if things turned bad for him (with negative side effects for Mokmurian of course), but one of the PCs beat him to it after getting stuck behind a wall of force. As can be expected with Glabrezu wishes, it turned out badly for that PC. But the party eventually rallied and defeated the giant and the demon and dispersed the giant tribes.
Hey! Thanks everyone.. these are some great ideas! But mostly what I was asking was if in your experience, clearing both the rooms (full with CR 11-12 encounters) and Mokmurian is too much or not in your opinion/experience?
For example, is Mokmurian hard enough as written, or I should/could make some changes? (have him cast all the fogs beforehand etc..)
I guess i am a bit scared because of last time to have my dungeon use its full potential..:/
When I ran this fight the PCs skipped some encounters in the first section of caves, and ended up fighting both Lokansir and Enga Keckvia alongside Mokmurian. It turned what would have been a 1-2 punch out into an actual slugfest that proved to be memorable.
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Hey! Thanks everyone.. these are some great ideas! But mostly what I was asking was if in your experience, clearing both the rooms (full with CR 11-12 encounters) and Mokmurian is too much or not in your opinion/experience?
For example, is Mokmurian hard enough as written, or I should/could make some changes? (have him cast all the fogs beforehand etc..)
I guess i am a bit scared because of last time to have my dungeon use its full potential..:/
If I follow your posts and questions correctly, your pc's bypassed most or all of the encounters on the 1st level under Jorgenfist and proceeded straight to the 2nd level. They defeated the Runeslave/room trap, Golem, Headless Lord and Forge Fiend but were too depleted to continue.
You're asking if you replace those encounters with other CR 11 encounters will the same thing happen again? Most likely, yes. Let's check the math - A CR 11 encounter is meant to tax about 25% of the resources of 4 11th level pc's. The math is not scientifically precise but it shouldn't be a surprise that 4 CR 11-12 encounters tapped out a group of even 5 11th level pc's. Of note, you did not mention the Hounds which guard Mokmurian's lab (a CR 10). On top of that, Mokmurian himself is CR 15.
Keep in mind, the "assumed" path of the AP is that the group has defeated most of the ground level and 1st level encounters and has the corresponding xp before encountering Mokmurian. Even if you're using the milestone method, the pc's should be 12th level at least before they encounter him (and yes, that 1 level makes a difference.) Speaking as a dinosaur that awards xp the old-fashioned way, I can tell you that my group of 4 pc's has cleared out just about everything within Jorgenfist except Mokmurian (and the Hounds) and they are at 13th level now. If you add up xp of the encounters as provided in the AP, the pc's end up almost exactly where the milestones say.
This next bit is based on my interpretation of the AP so proceed with caution...
Mokmurian permits few of his allies/minions on the library level. Perhaps only Lokansir and the Lamia's go there at all. The rest of his minions are not ready to see or know about what can be found there - notably the cauldron and headless lord. Mokmurian is also jealous of knowledge of the Library itself. His rule over the giants is predicated on an aura of invincibility, he needs to be careful about revealing information about defeats and setbacks. Even relocating Lokansir or the lamia's might be disruptive. So Mokmurian may put the fortress on alert (consequences as described in the AP) but he'll not move any force to the Library level. If some stone giants died as a result of the pc's attack, he could turn them into Runeslaves, and place them around the cauldron (the reduction trap should be avoided.)
In your case, remember the AP tactics for Mokmurian - if seriously threatened, he flees to rally surviving allies against the pc's. Again this is my view, but for the pc's to end the threat to Varisia, they need to defeat Mokmurian and his allies on the 1st level to completely break the morale of the giant army (set Conna up to persuade them to go home.) If some of those lieutenants were to survive they might take some fraction of the broken giant army and go rampaging across Varisia. Having the 1st level forces directly supported by Mokmurian certainly will preserve the dungeon's potential.
Not sure if this helps or not. But, when I ran this encounter, Mokmurian was very aware of the groups entrance into the area. I played up his ego big time, and he was drinking the Karzoug fan boy cool aid big time. So running away was not in his play deck, unless he feels maybe he misjudged the groups strength. But even then it would have been to send in his pledges to test them further.
That said, I had him try to play to his strengths. Home field advantage and magic. For starters when the group walked in, the front of the room was covered with Solid Fog x 2, the room was then divided by invisible Walls of Force, all designed to force the group to go blindly through a sort of invisible maze. He casts fly on himself as they enter.
He then used his goggles, and uses the fly spell to have line of site, and be able to cast on the group at will. Using spells like Cloud Kill, Mass reduce Person, additional Solid Fog or site hindering spells, and tries to divide and con-quire the room, starting with the tanks if able first.
If the group is doing very well, and manages to bypass this strategy. He could call Lokansir, the Lamia's, or perhaps some of the lower CR stone giants. He could have sent for them really at any point. Or Dimension Doors , gathers them and send them in. All depending on how bad you want to make the situation get. It wasn't needed for my group however. It was a pretty tough battle as he killed most of there spells, and rounds of things like haste trying to navigate the maze.
Which was ideal for what I wanted. As I envisioned him trying to test and recruit part of the group, specifically the casters for Karzougs coming army. Taking every chance to preach Karzoug, spilling the beans of any plot points etc. Him watching the group while out of reach sizing them up. Of course if one is vulnerable, he then hits them hard and fast, as they are weak and not worthy of joining him in his quest.