I'm making a character who is all about dem debuffs, and he has a lot of debuffs trigger when he makes a sneak attack. He also doesn't make melee attack rolls, but rather makes combat maneuver checks and ranged attacks with a Net. His problem is that he achieves this with Grapple, so when they are immune to grapple he can't do a thing.
I want ways for him to deal any amount of damage on a combat maneuver check, so that it triggers sneak attack.
The ways I know of are as follows - Grapple to deal damage (Strangler Brawler)
- several Barbarian Rage Powers, such as Savage Dirty Trick and Knockdown
- I'm pretty sure there's some Net
feats abilities.
Covert Operator wrote: I'm making a character who is all about dem debuffs, and he has a lot of debuffs trigger when he makes a sneak attack. He also doesn't make melee attack rolls, but rather makes combat maneuver checks and ranged attacks with a Net. His problem is that he achieves this with Grapple, so when they are immune to grapple he can't do a thing.
I want ways for him to deal any amount of damage on a combat maneuver check, so that it triggers sneak attack.
The ways I know of are as follows - Grapple to deal damage (Strangler Brawler)
- several Barbarian Rage Powers, such as Savage Dirty Trick and Knockdown
- I'm pretty sure there's some Net feats.
Well, there are very few monsters that are immune to grapple, and most of those are also immune to precision damage/sneak attack. And there are many more monsters that are immune to sneak attack but not immune to grapple, so I would expect you to run into this very often.
I'm not seeing any net feats that would help, and I'm not seeing any other methods on a quick search.
you could dip white haired witch archetype. you get extended reach with a primary natural attack that automatically grabs and constricts without you being considered grappled. low level touch attack nasties from the witch spell list that automatically stack in as well.
Gwen Smith wrote: I'm not seeing any net feats that would help, and I'm not seeing any other methods on a quick search. For example, Tripping with one of those spiked nets (I forgot the name) deals 1 damage in addition to the trip.
.seth wrote: you could dip white haired witch archetype. you get extended reach with a primary natural attack that automatically grabs and constricts without you being considered grappled. low level touch attack nasties from the witch spell list that automatically stack in as well. I'm building a party, and one of his allies is a White-Haired Witch who uses the hair for protecting self with reach by stopping them in their tracks. They might take Improved Underhanded Teamwork together.
When I use Grapple to inflict damage, I like to use Hamatula Strike. Any attacks with Piercing Weapons allows a free Grapple check, and then if you are wearing Armor Spikes like me, every successful Grapple Attacks does bonus damage, usually 1d6 + bonuses. But this is on top of your Weapon Damage anyway, so it's all just gravy, good gravy.
If you can find some way to gain the Constrict Ability, all those Grapple checks will do your regular damage on top of your top of your weapon damage, and then there is the damage from your Armor spikes. And the Word of the Day is Triple Damage. Depending on the circumstances, I'm pretty sure you would get your Sneak Attack Damage on top of your Constrict or on top of your Armor Spikes, but not on top of both. Some things, like the Warpriests' Minor Blessing of Destruction or a Strength bonus to damage, you do get both.
To lock in my Sneak Attack Damage, I am quite fond of Dirty Tricks to make my victims Blind. If they have Blindsight, then I make them Deaf, too with the next hit. Take a level in Ranger and acquire a Wand of Negate Aroma. If he can't see you, hear you, OR smell you, probably all he can do then is feel you as you rip out his heart.
I like the Sap Adept Feats, but they don't work with Hamatula Strike, really, since one relies on Blunt Damage, and the other piercing. Perhaps that is what Morning Stars are for...
You aren't exactly asking for this, but it might be helpful. If I'm in a hurry to pump up my Sneak Attack Damage, I'd go 1 level in Rogue, 1 level in Vivisectionist Alchemist, then 1 level in Snakebite Striker Brawler: 3d6 in 3 levels. A 4th? there is the Precise Strike Teamwork Feat, but Teamwork Feats are special with their own special problems.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: When I use Grapple to inflict damage, I DO THIS AWESOME STUFF Thanks so much for that advice. I'm using Brawler (Strangler) to automatically get SA damage on grapple checks, then I use Slayer (Bounty Hunter) to do Dirty Tricks instead of SA damage. The Hamatula Strike lets me Grapple+Blind+Pin+Deafen as a Standard Action!
Pit Fighter 3 lets me make a Dirty Trick attempt and deal Weapon Damage on a success. This is the kind of thing I'm looking for!
Pit Fighter: Weapon Trick wrote: At 3rd level, a pit fighter gains Improved Dirty Trick as a bonus feat, and can use any weapon with the performance quality to perform a dirty trick combat maneuver. Once per round when the pit fighter performs a dirty trick maneuver against an enemy, he may deal damage to the enemy as if he had struck it with his normal melee attack. The pit fighter must be wielding a weapon and have at least one hand free to use this ability.
Covert Operator wrote: Pit Fighter 3 lets me make a Dirty Trick attempt and deal Weapon Damage on a success. This is the kind of thing I'm looking for!
Pit Fighter: Weapon Trick wrote: At 3rd level, a pit fighter gains Improved Dirty Trick as a bonus feat, and can use any weapon with the performance quality to perform a dirty trick combat maneuver. Once per round when the pit fighter performs a dirty trick maneuver against an enemy, he may deal damage to the enemy as if he had struck it with his normal melee attack. The pit fighter must be wielding a weapon and have at least one hand free to use this ability.
Ooh, Pit Fighter is a good one. I never noticed that. And if you take the Quick Dirty Trick, Feat, you can play your Dirty Tricks as an Attack Action, not just as a Standard Action. And if you have Weapon Trick, you also get to do damage, and get your Sneak Attack Damage, too.
You just put a cherry on my sundae!
Can you be a Pit Fighter in PFS?
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Covert Operator wrote: Pit Fighter 3 lets me make a Dirty Trick attempt and deal Weapon Damage on a success. This is the kind of thing I'm looking for!
Pit Fighter: Weapon Trick wrote: At 3rd level, a pit fighter gains Improved Dirty Trick as a bonus feat, and can use any weapon with the performance quality to perform a dirty trick combat maneuver. Once per round when the pit fighter performs a dirty trick maneuver against an enemy, he may deal damage to the enemy as if he had struck it with his normal melee attack. The pit fighter must be wielding a weapon and have at least one hand free to use this ability.
Ooh, Pit Fighter is a good one. I never noticed that. And if you take the Quick Dirty Trick, Feat, you can play your Dirty Tricks as an Attack Action, not just as a Standard Action. And if you have Weapon Trick, you also get to do damage, and get your Sneak Attack Damage, too.
You just put a cherry on my sundae!
Can you be a Pit Fighter in PFS? I've just realized! A character who is Pit Fighter 3 / Slayer (Bounty Hunter) 3 can get do a Dirty Trick which triggers a Dirty Trick on a success, which triggers a Dirty Trick, and so on! INFINITE POSSIBLE TRICKS.
EDIT: looks like it's not PFS-legal.
Covert Operator wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Covert Operator wrote: Pit Fighter 3 lets me make a Dirty Trick attempt and deal Weapon Damage on a success. This is the kind of thing I'm looking for!
Pit Fighter: Weapon Trick wrote: At 3rd level, a pit fighter gains Improved Dirty Trick as a bonus feat, and can use any weapon with the performance quality to perform a dirty trick combat maneuver. Once per round when the pit fighter performs a dirty trick maneuver against an enemy, he may deal damage to the enemy as if he had struck it with his normal melee attack. The pit fighter must be wielding a weapon and have at least one hand free to use this ability.
Ooh, Pit Fighter is a good one. I never noticed that. And if you take the Quick Dirty Trick, Feat, you can play your Dirty Tricks as an Attack Action, not just as a Standard Action. And if you have Weapon Trick, you also get to do damage, and get your Sneak Attack Damage, too.
You just put a cherry on my sundae!
Can you be a Pit Fighter in PFS? I've just realized! A character who is Pit Fighter 3 / Slayer (Bounty Hunter) 3 can get do a Dirty Trick which triggers a Dirty Trick on a success, which triggers a Dirty Trick, and so on! INFINITE POSSIBLE TRICKS. I love the idea, but it doesn't loop.
The Pit Fighter's Weapon Trick Ability is only useable 1/round. So if you get in a position to Sneak Attack your opponent, you can use the Bounty Hunter ability to play a Dirty Trick instead, then you can also use the Pit Fighter ability to do weapon Damage which would be on top of the weapon damage you have already done, and he is then eligible for doing Sneak Attack Damage now, or Dirty Trick again for a different effect, so say make your opponent both Blind and Deaf with 1 strike. But that is where the cycle ends, no further damage, no further Tricks.
Or if you weren't in a position to Sneak Attack initially, you could play your Dirty Trick to make your opponent Blind and use Weapon Trick to also do Weapon Trick. Probably, Blinding your opponent allows you to do Sneak Attack Damage, and then you could use your Bounty Hunter ability to inflict a 2nd Dirty Trick effect instead, to make him Blind and Staggered, for instance. But that is where the cycle ends.
It's still pretty awesome, though.
Another one: Gtr Sunder deals damage to objects, then transfers extra to target.
I was thinking it would be cool to use a Maul of the Titans in conjunction with Great Sunder: Triple Damage vs Inanimate Objects, and THEN the residual damage goes to the wielder.
The problem is that the Maul' is a poorly designed weapon. It was created before the Earthbreaker was, so instead the base is a Greatclub, which is not ideal. The +3 is way unnecessary: if you made it +1, you'd save like 16,000gp. And why on Earth (why on Golorion?) would somebody make a 25,000gp sundering weapon out of anything but Adamantine? If you make a character that says combines Greater Sunder and Great Cleave, you just have to customize your own weapon.
At level 5, take Master Craftsman. At level 7, take Craft Magic Arms and Armor. That part's fixed.
So, the Maul of the Titans is a +3 Greatclub that does triple damage vs inanimate objects. It costs 25,305gp. Since a +3 enchantment costs 18,000gp, and 305gp is the cost of a Masterwork Greatclub, that means the triple damage part costs 7000gp. This, anyway, is my understanding of the section of making your own magic items. As long as we're at it, let's take a look at the Shatterspike, a +1 longsword that does and extra +3/+3 when used to Sunder by someone with Improved Sunder. Again, this weapon is very badly designed: it costs 4315gp, but is less effective at Sundering than a nonmagical Adamantine Longsword. But I like the Shatterspike's Enchantment. I figure out of the 4315gp, the +1 enhancement costs 2000gp, and the 315 is the cost of a Masterwork Longsword, so the Shatterspike Enchantment costs 2000gp.
Since you would be crafting this weapon, you can buy it piecemeal and upgrade it a little at a time. There are rules regarding Partial Enchantments that say this is pretty straightforward.
Get an Adamantine Earthbreaker (of course!): 3040gp.
Put a +1 on it: 2000gp.
Put the Shatterspike Enchantment on it: 2000gp.
Give it another +1? 6000gp.
Put the 'of the Titans enchantment on it, and make it useable only by characters with 18 ST or put some other special limitation on it like the wielder can only be male or female: 7000gp.
But combining the Shatterspike and 'of the Titans enchantments causes you to add 50% the cost of the cheapest enchantment, so +1000gp.
The payoff for this 15,000gp item will be that you will Sunder ignoring the 1st 20 points of Hardness of everything you hit, will do a base 2d6 damage, tripled, and the residual of that tripled damage will go to the wielder.
Sweet.
|
