So I dun a class. It's called the battlecaster. You can detonate eldritch munitions, summon spell soldiers and cause all manner of arcane battlefield mischief. Enjoy!
Cheers,
- Gears
If I'm quite honest, I'm not really that concerned with a class being good for dippings. I think you will find that what "munchkins" will want to do, if they wish to live up to their names, is play 20 straight levels of diviner wizard.
Having said that, I could probably imagine spacing out a few class features. Maybe moving spell soldiers to 2nd level? I feel like that would probably be enough. Otherwise, I don't think moving arcane strategist down (maybe not even granting it until 5th level) could also be a doable step if further spacing is required.
As for stratagems and spell soldiers requiring balancing, could you perhaps be more specific regarding which aspects of these you find overpowered and why?
Cheers,
- Gears
Overpowered. Kek.
No. A low BAB with 4th level spells is nowhere even near the same league as anything close to being overpowered.
And it really isn't all that good a dip either. It gives you Combat Casting and a single tamwork feat, one round of tactician, a blast that will become useless in a couple of levels, and a somewhat good summon that will get useless in a few levels.
A martial wanting a teamwork feat would be better with a Cavalier dip, since it doesn't lose BAB and the tactician lasts way longer. Maybe if you dip two levels for Camp Follower Stratagem for a long lasting minion that can detect traps by walking into them. But that is only useful if you don't have a rogue type character and a caster that can use summoned monsters or unseem servant. But that is like the opposite of optimizing, it's spending two levels to cover the weaknesses of an all martials party.
A caster would balk at losing a caster level just to get Combat Casting and a summon that would soon be worse than learning Summon Monster 3. No munchkin would dip while building a caster.
Now to some actual constructive criticism.
Arcane Strategist, when used on a Spell Soldier, only affects the one summoned. you would have to use two uses and summon two spell soldiers before this is actually useful. Maybe have it affect all summoned Spell Soldiers at once. Or clarify if that is already the intention. You could move it to level five, when the duration is also more useful to the party. Would also help with not steping on the toes of the poor cavalier.
Eldritch Munitions wants to be meat of the class, judging by the number of Munition Stratagems, but it's too expensive at early levels to use all the time and with Stratagems it could eat your War Points like nobodies business. I could see Munitions builds having to take extra War Points multiple times and spending lots of spells on realocations. At the same time it seems balancd since it does do a lot of damage and can have multiple riders.
Spell Soldiers are what I really like about the class, the real meat, but they are sorely lacking in Stratagems. I'm hoping this will be rectified, and if you want I can suggest several possible ideas.
Battle Lore is okay, Tactical Mind needs to clarify if it also adds to Perception checks to notice ambushes, since you're technically not in a combat situation yet, but it starts a combat situation. Eldritch Field Marshall is a good capstone.
Selective Munitions is pretty much obligatory. So is Micro Munitions.
The save of a Micro Munitions doesn't change right? It's still good for delivering conditions?
You can combine Micro Munitions, Muntions Complexity and Quickened Munitions to do the equivalent to full damage munitions every round for free. Takes three Stratagems a full round action, level 12 or 11 with a feat and has a smaller range and area and can't apply conditions, so in the end I consider it okay.
Strategic Strikes work only with the Standard action attack, correct? Maybe add so he can use it with charges too, or Strategic Charge will be pretty much useless. Maybe with Spring Attack attacks too. Anyway this and Strategic Expansion can actually make for a viable Vital Strike build since he can't full attack for cap anways.
You should allow Strategic Reactions to increase his BAB to full on AoOs because otherwise he will misss with all of them even with Strenght and Int to them.
I would personally like if the automatic damage to items worn and carried be removed from Sulfuric Munitions. It's fine for Alkahest and Conflagration, for when you really want to nuke everything, but on Sulfuric it makes a cool DoT into something that risks destroying your loot by accident.
Also Alkahest and Conflagration should mention that foes killed by them are turned to ash and harder to ressussitate like with a Desintegration spell.
Lastly on Stratagems, Tentacled Ammunitions still does damage on top of the tentacles right?
I can see why the concentration for multiple soldiers is necessary for balance, but I don't quite like it. Maybe Stratagem to reduce it one step at something like 14th or 16th level?
Their basic abilities are comparable to a basic animal companion so they're okay. BAB and str/dex bonus are a little higher, HD and saves are lower, they're more glass cannons than normal ACs but that is a good
difference.
Adjutant is neat. It's not going to be anyones first type of soldier, but when you can control three or more he becames very useful.
Bomblings and Magelings strongly remind me of tower defense games. I might make a build based around it.
Munitions Resistance seems to me like something all Spell Soldiers should gain, maybe in exchange for Evasion and Improved Evasion, which are kinda of useless with their poor Ref save.
Can Magelings use Share Spells to use personal buffs on other Spell Soldiers?
Brutes only have half evolution pool, so I guess they'll be fine.
Grunts need an aside marking hat if they have a style like Two Weapon Fight or Sword and Shield they get a light weapon or a shield, otherwise they only show up with a single weapon as per War Forged.
Rider and Scout are neat, Warder shold appear with a shield too, maybe even be able to appear with a Tower Shield.
I have some ideas for other Spell Soldier types I will include them with the Stratagem ideas if you want.
Edit: Some spellchecking, an extra thought about Spell Soldiers.
@VM mercenario: Thanks a bunch for all the great feedback. I will admit I don't myself see any glaring balance concerns with the class (though I'm sure it could use lots of tweaks and additions), so I'm curious what Thomas LeBlanc meant. I think I agree with your assessment of how good the class is for dipping (or rather isn't). I may, as pointed out, still move arcane strategist to 5th as a sort of token gesture to that "great flavor/horrible mechanical execution" monstrosity called the cavalier.
Allow me to respond to your other points, though!
Stratagems:
The save doesn't change for micro-munitions. "Micro-munitions are otherwise treated and function exactly as regular eldritch munitions in all ways", as the document says.
I had actually overlooked that stratagem combination. Good catch. Maybe I should state that micro-munitions can't be quickened? I also kind of feel like it's okay. Maybe that would be a needless nerf? I'm undecided.
I'll add charges, Spring Attack and similar single-attack actions to the list of things Strategic Strikes can modify. I'll also note it can be applied to a single AoO when using Strategic Reactions to add your Int on an AoO.
I'm not married to sulfuric munitions damaging gear. I have no problem nixing that part of it. Done.
I'll definitely add that to alkahest and conflagrant. That's very flavorful and cool.
Yes. Tentacled munitions still does damage as normal. I'll clarify that in the text just to be on the safe side.
I'll also add that Tactical Mind works to spot ambushes.
As for the spell soldiers things:
I'll make sure to add in that spell soldiers are summoned with two weapons if TWF-ing, and get shields and such; and yes, warders should come with tower shields and proficiency with them.
I actually think I want to keep munitions resistance for bomblings alone. I think instead I'll replace evasion and improved with DR 5/magic which improves to DR 5/magic & adamantine at 13th level. Thoughts?
I would love to hear ideas for new stratagems and spell soldier troop types. I definitely could imagine adding a few of the latter, especially.
Again, much appreciated feedback. I'll get on implementing the changes ASAP.
Cheers,
- Gears
Thanks for the change to sulfuric munitions. And you're right about micromunitions and selective, no need to make them features. I can think of at least two good builds that wouldn't need them. Three if you like the Stratagems.
I think you didn't see it because I edited it in later so I'll ask again:
Can Magelings use Share Spells to use personal buffs on other Spell Soldiers? Or on the Battlecaster?
Alchemical Bombling: You can change the base attack of a bombling from alchemist fire to liquid ice, acid flask or alkali flask. As a swift action you can transfer a flask of holy water or similar, a flask of oil, a packet of powder or similar, a tanglefoot bag, thunderstone or smoke pellet from the battlecaster to the bombling. The bombling can throw it with his next attack on the same round or keep it to throw when ordered.
Elite Grunt: When summoning a Grunt the Battlecaster can spend a warpoint to make an elite grunt. If the grunt has a higher base strenght he becomes large sized as per the Enlarge Person spell. If the grunt has a higher base dexteriy it gains a +2 dodge bonus to AC, a +10 feet increase to his base speed and can make an extra attack at his highest BAB when mmaking a full attack action, this extra attack does not stack with those granted by Haste or similar abilities.
Adept Mageling: The Battlecaster can scribe in his spell book one spell of each fisrt second and third level from the cleric, druid or witch spell list. All three spells must be from the same spell list. He doesn't add this spells to his his spells known and cannot cast them but he can use them with the Magery ability of his mageling spell soldier.
Combat Mageling: The mageling can cast personal and touch range spells on other spell soldiers as if they had range of 30 feet.
Poisoning Scout: When summoning a scout spell soldier the Battlecaster can spend a dose of poison on his person as a swift action. If he does so the poison is transferred to the scout. If it's an injury or contact posion the scout gains a bite attack that deals 1d2 damage and injects the poison. If it's contact, inhaled or ingested poison the scout can attempt to set the delivery method of the poison.
Assassin Scout: When summoning a scout spell soldier the Battlecaster can spend a war point to give him the ability to strike at vital points. If the scout hits an unaware or helpless target he adds a number of Sneak Attack dice equal a rogue of half the battle casters level.
Fighting Warder: When using a shield the Warder can use any polearm or spear of size as a one handed weapon. He can also use his shield hand to load and draw a crossbow without losing his shield bonus to AC.
Double Summoning: By spending a full round action the Batlecaster can summon two Spell Soldiers of the same type at once. He must pay an extra war point and the the war points for both Spell Soldiers. The Spell Soldiers appear at the start of his next round. If he summons two Spell Soldiers from a type with multiple selections, like grunts or magelings he can summon different selections of the same type. Prereq: Level 12
New Spell Soldier:
Security (or maybe Sentry or Hunter)
Long Lasting like the Scout, can keep going even if Battlecaster is asleep.
Extra Senses instead of advanced movements.
Gains maneuver feats and abilities, either grapple, dirty trick or a choice with multiple selections. It's so it can occupy an enemy while raising alarm or to take enemies in a nonlethal ways. It would also be useful in battle.
Can Spell Soldiers talk/make sounds? If not maybe he can make alarm sounds. And be able to recognize passwords so he doesn't sound the alarm just because someone walked away from the campfire and into the bushes.
New Feat
Bomb Bombling
I heard you like bombs so we put bombs on your bombling.
Prerequisite: Alchemical Bombling Stratagem; Bomb 2d6 class feature
As a swift action you can spend a use of Bombs class feature to transfer it to the bombling. The bombling counts as the alchemist for all purposes and the bomb does not become inert in his hands. If the bombling Self Destructs while holding the it, the Bomb explodes centered on the bombling.
As written, mageling spell soldiers cannot benefit from share spells (which also contained an embarrassing copy/paste error calling spell soldiers "familiars"), but I definitely think they should be able to. I've amended that section to reflect this and updated the file in the Google Drive folder.
I like all your ideas. I'll try to work them into the documents (probably with a few tweaks of my own because I can never leave well alone), and I'll post a completed changelog here when I'm done. I may not have time to do this stuff until tomorrow though. It's getting late on my side of the pond.
As for spell soldiers being able to make sounds, it's not explicitly stated whether or not they can, and I don't think it needs to be. We'll just make sure it's spelled out that a Sentry or Sentinel spell soldier can make LOUD NOISES!
Cheers,
- Gears
I like all your ideas. I'll try to work them into the documents (probably with a few tweaks of my own because I can never leave well alone)
No worries, as long as i'm in a creative swing I'm full of ideas, but I don't ever have the ilusion that I'm actually a good rules writer. You should probably check with Kamenhero or someone for actual balancing.
I'll see if I can cobble up something else, especially for riders and brutes since I didn't get them on my first pass. What's your opinion on stealing bit and pieces from other martial classes, like maybe giving the brute a few rounds of rage and allowing to buy rage powers for evolution points?
On the DR, I think it wouldn't work because of the warder. Maybe Fire Resistance 10 and later 20, add acid, eletric and cold resistance if you have those stratagems (caustic, galvanic, cryo), Munitions Resistance would still be better but it would help you not worring if you shoot your own soldiers.
Maxim 20: If you're not willing to shell your own position, you're not willing to win.
Also, just saw the Shadewright. I'll comment there in a few days. That is a lot of archetypes to through. I love it.
And I should ride this creativity burst and work on my own classes. Someday I'll finish one of them.
You know what, I think that's an excellent idea. The energy resistance I mean. I know you'd prefer giving them munitions resistance, but I like the feel of that more. Especially if we pair it with the stratagems as suggested.
Yeah, the shadewright is suffering a bit from what I like to think of as "blood scionitis" in the archetype department. Actually just finished another one. I am very proud of them though.
I'd be really excited to see any of your classes when they get finished!
Cheers,
- Gears
Alright. So I've done quite a few tweaks and additions to the battlecaster. Nothing radical, mostly just creating new stratagems and fiddling with a few mechanical details as per suggestions from perspicacious critics. Thanks to VM mercenario (Paizo forums) and Skip Sandwich and Aergoth (GiantITP forums) for their contributions!
I'm sure there's still room for improvement and addition, but the class is starting to feel a lot more complete. Below follows a list of changes:
* Mageling spell soldiers now benefit from share spells just like battlecasters do. All spell soldiers can be conjured with shields. Warder spell soldiers can be conjured with tower shields.
* Strategic Strikes and strategic reactions rewritten to synergize.
* Tactical Mind was altered to let you spot ambushes.
* New Troop Type created: Sentinel
* New Stratagems created: Adept Mageling, Alchemical Bombling, Combat Mageling, Effortless Command, Eldritch Artillery Battery, Elite Grunt, Grenadiers, Grunt Squad, Sappers, Scout Swarm, Tandem Spell Soldiers, Toxic Scout
Probably going to do phalanx-fighting warders as per VM mercenario's suggestion, as well as a few other ones that're floating around in my head, in addition to the new stratagems noted above. Suggestions still welcome!
Cheers,
- Gears
If the class seems a bit too OP in playtesting, I would suggest a couple simple changes: drop skill ranks to 2+int and have everything that isn't spellcasting be based on Charisma.
The single martial weapon proficiency, while flavorful, is almost completely superfluous with such low BAB. I'm imagining this guy wearing full plate with a heavy shield using a wand.
Actually, there are several stratagems that make having a martial weapon proficiency quite useful, so there's no reason to nix it.
Thanks for the nerf suggestion. As things stand now, I don't foresee the class being OP compared to an Unchained Summoner, let alone an arcanist or sorcerer. This class is meant to straddle the top of Tier 3, and I think it does so admirably. My hunch is that if anything turns out to be problemtic it's more likely to be individual stratagems or spell soldier abilities or similar that require nerfing or removing or similar. I don't think the battlecaster's great strength is the enormous size of his resource pool or his unparalleled command of skills, so that wouldn't seem to me to be the most logical place to trim the class, but I could always be wrong. We'll see, I suppose, as things progress.
I will say that the idea of dropping skill ranks to 2 + Int is something I wouldn't mind much either way, honestly. Originally the class had a bit less utility than it does now (being more solely focused on using magic to commit mass murder), but as the spell soldiers and stratagems have been evolving, I could see a case for dropping the skill ranks. It's sort of a wash in my eyes, so I'd be interested to hear what others think.
Cheers,
- Gears
I...guess? This is probably just me reading into things (and I apologize in advance if that is so; tone on the Internet being hard to read and all that), but that seems like a strange and somewhat dismissive comment.
No, that's not what this class is. It's a class for someone who likes summoning and likes blasting and wants to do it with a fun "military officer" flavor. Mechanically, this class is a lot more limited than the wizard, and it bears almost no similarities to the magus aside from being able to use magic to deal a lot of damage and being an arcane spellcaster.
I have a hard time seeing how a battlecaster is similar to a staff magus if I can be quite honest. It's a lot more similar to a summoner, if anything, although the goal is to perhaps keep its power level slightly below the summoner's. This is not the be-all-end-all of the class' design philosophy, but it would be a copacetic thing to be able to achieve.
I want to be very clear that I am all for reducing the class' power level if people find aspects of it OP. I merely don't think that Thomas LeBlanc's issue with it being front-loaded has too much merit. If anyone has specific criticisms of things that need toning down, I am all ears!
Cheers,
- Gears
A lot to go through, so I'll make comments and suggestions as they come to me.
...brute spell soldiers gain an evolution pool, like that of a summoner's eidolon, equal in size to 1/2 the battlecaster's class level + 1 point of his Intelligence modifier per odd-numbered class level he possesses.
This is quite the mouthful and was a little confusing at first (I thought you counted yourself as 1/2 summoner for size of pool, then added the odd int bonus). This will most likely be the same as 1 point per level all the way up to 16, I would just save all that hassle and have it be:
...brute spell soldiers gain an evolution pool like that of a summoner's eidolon. They receive a number of evolution points equal to the battlecaster's class level.
Scout Soldiers: if you can take 30' fly with perfect maneuverability, why would you even bother grabbing 30' climb?
That's a fair point, I suppose. I've been thinking about reducing the size of their evo pools anyway. It feels a bit too close to a summoner's. I'll have to look that over.
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Wow, I was surprised to see that name used for this ...
Battlecaster was the original name for the Battle Scion class I wrote, which can be found in the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press.
I ended up changing the name of the class, but I liked the name so much I gave it to a Legendary Magic Item in the same book, the Battlecaster Armor
Yeah, I kinda would've liked to call these guys Warmages, but I didn't want it to seem like a 3.5 conversion or something.
Hey, I like the Battle Scion, by the way. Made the Reichskanzler of an evil empire in my homebrew campaign one of those. He was a sort of wannabe renaissance man who wanted to perfect both the martial and arcane arts, but was too violent and unscholarly to commit to magihood. It's a cool class!
Cheers,
- Gears
@Scud422: Oh, sorry, I missed your edit and so didn't see your question about the scout troop type's various movement options. I suppose that is something of a fair point. Since they are only clumsy mindless constructs, I daresay the perfect maneuverability is a bit much. I'll change it to average. That will make a climb speed occasionally more useful. I'll also boost the climb speed to equal your base speed, so you can combine it with the base speed increase to get a bit more oomph from that choice. Good catch!
Cheers,
- Gears
...I was just struck by a weird revelation. I don't think I see how combining Micro-Munitions, Munitions Complexity and Quickened Munitions would allow a battlecaster to do "full damage for free" as mercenario wrote back in October (and which point I appear to have agreed with back then). I feel like I'm being dense and missing something which I got back then, but when I review the case now I just don't see how this combo gets around the war point cost of Munitions Complexity?
...It's not a necro when it's a homebrew thread, right? :P
Cheers,
- Gears
Weird, did Munitions Complexity get changed? The combo was to use Quickened Munitions to launch two Micro Munitions in one round. That costs no war points and deals half damage twice, so the equivalent to full damage. You have to wait until level 12 to do it because you need to apply two morph counts to your Micro Munitions. Wait, what was the purpose of using Munitions Complexity with this combo again?
...
Maybe I goofed up and you didn't notice at the time?
Yeah, it's really weird. It may have been that initially using Munitions Complexity didn't cost war points, although I honestly don't remember whether that was ever the case or not. Anyway, at 12th level micro-munitions can bear two morph counters, which would allow them to be quickened anyway. So quickening micro-munitions for free is still a thing, it's just that it's even easier and better than what you proposed, since Munitions Complexity isn't even required for it to work.
Which is making me even more inclined to simply disallow the quickening of micro-munitions. I mean, even if it's not available until 12th level and probably wouldn't be terribly OP, it just makes that stratagem (already really good) even more powerful. I think I'm just going to go ahead and write into Quickened Munitions that it can't be applied to micro-munitions.
Cheers,
- Gears