So, just now I was at the death zone, and I encountered a stone giant from failing to spot an ambush. Ambush states:
If undefeated, examine the location deck until you find a monster; encounter it, subtracting 1 from each die rolled in your checks.
Death Zone states:
On checks, treat all die rolls of 1 or 2 as 0
On my check to defeat I rolled a 1, 2, 3, 3, 5, and had a +7 modifier on the roll. What was the result? Several things need to be determined:
Does Death Zone care only what shows on the dice, or does the power trigger after individual dice results are modified?
Does the Death Zone die roll effect trigger before or after the ambush effect on die rolls?
If the Death Zone triggers before, can the subsequent modifier push the result into the negatives?
(I still one no matter the interpretation, thanks to a trusty hex. But I'm interested in the answer for the future.)
I treat the minus from Ambush as an additional modifier on the roll, just one that happens to scale up with the number of dice rolled -- it does not adjust what the die is actually showing on its face (which is what Death Zone cares about). So for the sake of explanation, let's assume all 5 dice you rolled were d6's. Therefore you would roll (due to Ambush) 5d6-5+7, or 5d6+2. On top of that, any dice that show a 1 or 2 are treated as 0s instead. So for your example you rolled 1+2+3+3+5-5+7, which turns into 0+0+3+3+5-5+7, which is a total of 13. Note that your combined total can never dip below 0, so even if you rolled 5 1's and had a +0 modifier to get 0+0+0+0+0-5 = -5, the actual result of the roll is simply 0.
I'd say this is a situation of two effects happening at the same time, so you choose the order.
... and chosing the order indeed makes a difference.
Let's say you roll 3d6 and have all dice ending up on the "3" side.
If you do (3-1)=2 first, then 2=0 for each then you end up at 0.
If you do it the other way around then you end up at 3*(3-1)=6.
This is actually one of the rare cases where you can (if the roll and the check level are within the needed range) chose to succeed or not at a roll.
I'm with skizzerz that the Death Zone cares about what's on the dice face, though I'm pretty sure somewhere in the rulebook it mentions that any one die cannot be reduced to less than zero. I had to check because I had a similar situation when I was Ambushed by a Warlord, and had to subtract 2 from each die. So if I were in your situation I would have rolled:
1,2,3,3,5 + 7
and Death Zone makes that become:
0,0,3,3,5 + 7
and because you were Ambushed:
0,0,2,2,4 + 7 = 15
I'm pretty sure somewhere in the rulebook it mentions that any one die cannot be reduced to less than zero.
This is what I thought too. Turns out that's not what it says.
No matter how many penalties are applied to a roll of the dice, the result cannot be reduced below 0.
It's the total, not each die, that cannot be reduced below 0. skizzerz incorporated this into his analysis above.
Ah, I stand corrected. It's been a while since I've seen the exact wording. Thanks.
... and chosing the order indeed makes a difference.
Let's say you roll 3d6 and have all dice ending up on the "3" side.
If you do (3-1)=2 first, then 2=0 for each then you end up at 0.
If you do it the other way around then you end up at 3*(3-1)=6.This is actually one of the rare cases where you can (if the roll and the check level are within the needed range) chose to succeed or not at a roll.
I don't think that's right. The wording is "treat all die rolls of 1 or 2". If you roll a 3 and subtract 1 from it, it adds 2 to the total, but it's still a "die roll of 3". Subtracting 1 doesn't change what the die rolled. So I would say regardless of the order you choose, a roll of 3 adds 2 to the total and a roll of 1 adds -1 (your interpretation would make it 0).
I'm making this distinction between what the die roll is and what it counts as based on another earlier thread about dogslicer and another power/effect that made 2s count as 1s. In a similar vein, the power/effect making a 2 count as a 1 did not activate dogslicer because the die roll was still a 2.
Incidentally, dogslicer and death zone would be interesting. I think the golden rule says the location overrides the card, so a 1 would be a 0 and just tough luck for the dogslicer.
I'm pretty sure somewhere in the rulebook it mentions that any one die cannot be reduced to less than zero.This is what I thought too. Turns out that's not what it says.
No matter how many penalties are applied to a roll of the dice, the result cannot be reduced below 0.It's the total, not each die, that cannot be reduced below 0. skizzerz incorporated this into his analysis above.
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The rules say "Roll the dice and add up their value, adding or subtracting any modifiers that apply to the check."
"Treat all die rolls of 1 or 2 as 0" is not asking you to subtract anything, so it's not a modifier—it's redefining the die rolls.
So:
Roll the dice: Your 1, 2, 3, 3, 5 becomes 0, 0, 3, 3, 5.
Add up their value: 11.
Add or subtract modifiers: Add your +7 and subtract 1 for each die, so your result is 13.
If I'm taking 1d4-1 damage, I'm really hoping for that 0 and not a 1 personally. :)
And if you had 1d4-2, your range would be -1 to 2. You adjust the grand total of all dice and modifiers added together upwards to 0 in the event it winds up negative, but individual negatives remain so.