Remember the Ghost question thread? And how you couldn't use Caltrops to defeat the Ghost because the Ghost requires the Magic trait to defeat and the Caltrops doesn't have the Magic trait.
Well, the Holy Water Grenade does have the Magic trait. So does the Holy Water Grenade defeat the Ghalcor (as in, do things that automatically succeed at checks get played in "Determine which skill you're using" and thus allow themselves to add their traits to the check?) I believe the answer is yes because of the following: "A few cards that can be used on checks don’t use any of your skills; they instead specify the exact dice you need to roll or the result of your die roll."
An autosuccess seems to be very similar to "the result of your die roll" in spirit.
It seems to make so much sense for Holy Water Grenades to work on Incorporeal monsters, but I've been wrong before.
In addition, if you can automatically defeat the Ghalcor with the Holy Water Grenade, do you then have to roll the 1d6 to determine if you have to start the check over? I assume no because you bypassed the check instead. Ghalcor explicitly says "after you attempt the roll".
This FAQ seems somewhat relevant, though doesn't address the trait question.
I think by RAW you would not add the traits. The FAQ says "If a power allows you to automatically defeat or acquire a card, you may use it instead of attempting the check. Using such a power counts as succeeding at all checks required to defeat or acquire the card."
Since you are never actually attempting the check, you never even get to the "Determine Which Skill You're Using" step, but rather just entirely bypass it. As such, no traits whatsoever are applied to the check and you never attempt any rolls.
As for RAI, I think it should work on incorporeal monsters, since the item it is modeled after in the RPG certainly does:
Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A flask breaks if thrown against the body of a corporeal creature, but to use it against an incorporeal creature, you must open the flask and pour the holy water out onto the target. Thus, you can douse an incorporeal creature with holy water only if you are adjacent to it. Doing so is a ranged touch attack that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
|
Skizzerz, what it's based on isn't a good source of RAI. When you're talking about a card game that is a very simplified version of a not so simplified RPG, you're going to have some things that don't make since. Good like throwing caltrops at a skeleton in the RPG, but it works just fine here.
The rest of your post is right though, because you never played a card to determine your skill, you never played a card that added its traits so it wouldn't defeat it. If it was supposed to kill it, then I expect an errata that specifically adds text saying so to the power.
Skizzerz, what it's based on isn't a good source of RAI. When you're talking about a card game that is a very simplified version of a not so simplified RPG, you're going to have some things that don't make since. Good like throwing caltrops at a skeleton in the RPG, but it works just fine here.
The rest of your post is right though, because you never played a card to determine your skill, you never played a card that added its traits so it wouldn't defeat it. If it was supposed to kill it, then I expect an errata that specifically adds text saying so to the power.
This is true, we need to allow for abstractions (it's even in the rulebook after all!), but in this case I think it does make sense for it to work on incorporeal things. As of right now, it does not (assuming my rules interpretation is correct), so we shall see if any errata is issued or if this is working as intended.
This is an interesting question. It makes sense to me to add the traits to the check, because that is the card you are using for the check, only that you're not rolling any dice. But I cannot back that up with any rulebook logic.
Let's say there was a hypothetical monster that had the Aquatic trait, but for some reason was immune to the Alchemical trait. Could you then not throw Potion of the Ocean at it?
I see. So that's immunity then, which is different than the question posed with the Ghalcor.
I had another analogy but while typing it out I figured out why it wouldn't work. I don't think there are many cards that allow you to auto-succeed at a check to defeat a bane, but it's been hinted there might be more in the future.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
He's not the Ghalcor. He's just Ghalcor.
Noted. My bad!
That's probably my fault, as I kept saying "the Ghalcor" :P
I suppose talking about, say, the Madonna is quite different than talking about Madonna. ;-)
I'm sad, but I'll accept it. :)