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With the flurry of FAQs today, we are missing one important one:
Does a monk using unarmed strikes gain an additional attack from the spell haste?
We know that the monk receives the dodge bonus to AC and the enhancement bonus to speed (which is overridden by the monk's own Fast Movement from 9th level onward) and that he gains the additional attack when using a manufactured monk weapon. But does he get that additional attack with his unarmed strikes?
Seems like today would be a good day to get that answered officially, Mister Bulmahn. Since you are already updating the FAQ.
MA
Does a monk using unarmed strikes gain an additional attack from the spell haste?
Why wouldn't he?
Haste: "When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon."
(Monk) Unarmed Strike: "A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."
A better question would be "Does a non-monk using unarmed strikes gain an additional attack from the spell haste?" (since a non-monk unarmed strike is neither a natural nor manufactured weapon)
Thanks for the quick response. This is the paragraph you meant?
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
I've seen a lot of people make the argument that haste does not enhance or improve weapons. The spell is cast on the character, who then gains the effects. The spell itself says this:
The transmuted creatures move and act more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects.
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding.
Now, the argument (which I do not agree with, by the way) goes like this: the spell haste does not target the weapon, nor does it improve it; only the character. Because unarmed strikes and natural weapons are not held, they cannot gain additional attacks from this spell. In a nutshell.
Anyway, I appreciate your response, but I'm not sure if it will stop those who say haste doesn't work unless it is spelled out that it does.
MA
Now, the argument (which I do not agree with, by the way) goes like this: the spell haste does not target the weapon, nor does it improve it; only the character. Because unarmed strikes and natural weapons are not held, they cannot gain additional attacks from this spell.
They removed the "holding" requirement in errata.
"Page 294—In the haste description, in the second paragraph, in the first sentence, change “one extra attack with any weapon he is holding” to “one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon.”
Jason, the issue is partially that when haste was changed from its previous wording of "held" weapon to
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon.
it doesn't mention unarmed attacks.
Is getting the extra attack from haste just a monk thing, or is it a more general unarmed attack thing?
Ah, I still have pre-errata books. That does't change that an unarmed strike is neither a manufactred or a natural weapon. And that the spell itself doesn't target the weapon.
Like I said, I allow it in my games, but there have been some pretty intense threads on this exact subject here.
MA
Then ask them why the Lead Designer answered by pointing out the "unarmed strike = manufactured weapon" thing.
They could say he's pointing out that it only counts for certain purposes, of which haste doesn't apply.
(I don't agree, but it wasn't as concrete as if Jason had added a "yep" or "nope" to his page citation)
A flurry of answers!
Yup.. haste works with unarmed strikes.
Jason
It must be that special time of the year.
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas
Ev'rywhere you go;
Take a look in the five and ten glistening once again
With candy canes and silver lanes aglow.
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas
FAQs in ev'ry store
But the prettiest sight to see is the holly that will be
On your own front door.
LOL
Thank you, Mister Bulmahn. Thank you very much.
MA
So where should I have that case of 24-year old single malt Scotch delivered? :)
MA
Yayyyy!
You can haste if you want to, you won't leave your monks behind...
So where should I have that case of 24-year old single malt Scotch delivered? :)
MA
Or do you prefer Tequila or Vodka? Or some other non-alcoholic item? Although dealing with all our questions and debates I would imagine the alcohol would be preferred.
so, pending actual errata to flurry coming out with a new printing:
1) can it be understood that ALL attacks made as a flurry full attack must be made with UAS or monk weapons?
the current RAW on flurry doesn't make that clear, only the bonus attack(s) are indicated to be only made with UAS/monk weapons.
but i'm not sure on intent there, maybe mixing UAS with greatswords IS the intent with flurry...?
2) can it be understood that flurry is applying a blanket -2 to all attacks made as part of full attack, e.g. including haste?
OK there seems to be some rule change to flurry yesterday . I can't find it , can someone please link it for me please .
Edit,never mind found it
My house, I can e-mail you the address :)So where should I have that case of 24-year old single malt Scotch delivered? :)
MA
Haha.
MA
A slightly trickier (IMO) question would be "Does Haste stack with the extra attack a monk gets from spending a ki point or are they similar effects?"
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon. The attack is made using the creature's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a speed weapon, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can't use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)