I'm a level 1 Human Druid with Eye for Talent. I'm applying the +2 to Int, which gives the Snake an Int of 3.
Because of this he's allowed to:
Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.
Using common sense (which may not be applicable) I can't take Improved Unarmed Strike because the snake doesn't have any arms with which to use it.
I would expect this to mean the Constrictor Snake is forever blocked from Improved Grapple, but I find that to be a bit silly. So the question is, have I missed anything? Is there a way for the Snake to get it anyways?
I'm a level 1 Human Druid with Eye for Talent. I'm applying the +2 to Int, which gives the Snake an Int of 3.
Because of this he's allowed to:
Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.Using common sense (which may not be applicable) I can't take Improved Unarmed Strike because the snake doesn't have any arms with which to use it.
I would expect this to mean the Constrictor Snake is forever blocked from Improved Grapple, but I find that to be a bit silly. So the question is, have I missed anything? Is there a way for the Snake to get it anyways?
They list arms as a requirement for Improved Unarmed?
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A headbutt is an unarmed strike. Are you telling me that a snake is physically incapable of that?
Edit: Also, it's called unarmed strike. I can't imagine a more un-armed creature than a snake.
What we are drawing attention to is that yes, you can totally do it.
Give'r
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Any creature can make an unarmed strike. An unarmed strike is described in the combat chapter of the CRB as a Punch, Kick, or Headbutt. You do not need to be a monk to make an unarmed strike with something other than a fist.
Your snake has a head, so it can make an unarmed strike.
Although, you can take Improved Grapple without unarmed strike if you take Dirty Fighting from the the Dirty Tactics Toolbox.
Is the point to give the snake a new attack form, like smacking its enemies with its forehead? Then sure, why not? But I'm not sure a snake would ever want to forehead-smack an enemy, unless maybe it's fighting skeletons or something similar.
If the idea is to somehow (I don't know how) make it better at biting, then no, it is not "unarmed" when biting and this feat will do nothing for its bite attack or for the automatic Grab it gets if the bite is successful.
If the intent is to just take the prerequisite feat for a better one (Improved Grapple) then yes, this should never be a problem even if the snake will never, ever, use Improved Unarmed Strike.
Is the point to give the snake a new attack form, like smacking its enemies with its forehead? Then sure, why not? But I'm not sure a snake would ever want to forehead-smack an enemy, unless maybe it's fighting skeletons or something similar.
If the idea is to somehow (I don't know how) make it better at biting, then no, it is not "unarmed" when biting and this feat will do nothing for its bite attack or for the automatic Grab it gets if the bite is successful.
If the intent is to just take the prerequisite feat for a better one (Improved Grapple) then yes, this should never be a problem even if the snake will never, ever, use Improved Unarmed Strike.
The point is to take it as a Prerequisite for Improved Grapple and subsequent Grapple Feats
The point is to take it as a Prerequisite for Improved Grapple and subsequent Grapple FeatsIs the point to give the snake a new attack form, like smacking its enemies with its forehead? Then sure, why not? But I'm not sure a snake would ever want to forehead-smack an enemy, unless maybe it's fighting skeletons or something similar.
If the idea is to somehow (I don't know how) make it better at biting, then no, it is not "unarmed" when biting and this feat will do nothing for its bite attack or for the automatic Grab it gets if the bite is successful.
If the intent is to just take the prerequisite feat for a better one (Improved Grapple) then yes, this should never be a problem even if the snake will never, ever, use Improved Unarmed Strike.
Of course, that's what the OP already said. I was just laying out the obvious optional reasons and the results of taking the feat for those reasons.
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If you are only getting it for prerequisites, take Dirty Fighting (previewed here) instead.
You can take advantage of a distracted foe.
Benefit: When you attempt a combat maneuver check against a foe you are flanking, you can forgo the +2 bonus on your attack roll for flanking to instead have the combat maneuver not provoke an attack of opportunity. If you have a feat or ability that allows you to attempt the combat maneuver without provoking an attack of opportunity, you can instead increase the bonus on your attack roll for flanking to +4 for the combat maneuver check.Special: This feat counts as having Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, and Improved Unarmed Strike for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of the various improved combat maneuver feats, as well as feats that require those improved combat maneuver feats as prerequisites.
Yeah, thanks everyone this was all extremely helpful!
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I did this exact build with my Ranger in PFS, and he's 10th level now. His Snake has Improved Unarmed Strike, Snake Style, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple, and Narrow Frame.
Over the last couple years I encountered enough table variation from GMs (including VOs) that I now bring two versions of my companion to appease them. One is my original build, and the other has mundane feats like Toughness and Weapon Focus.
While I truly believe that a snake should be able to take Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, I also didn't want to argue at the table and take up valuable play time from others. I suggest a similar practice for others, as a less frustrated GM equals a more fun table.
Just my advice, at least.
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I did this exact build with my Ranger in PFS, and he's 10th level now. His Snake has Improved Unarmed Strike, Snake Style, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple, and Narrow Frame.
Over the last couple years I encountered enough table variation from GMs (including VOs) that I now bring two versions of my companion to appease them. One is my original build, and the other has mundane feats like Toughness and Weapon Focus.
While I truly believe that a snake should be able to take Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, I also didn't want to argue at the table and take up valuable play time from others. I suggest a similar practice for others, as a less frustrated GM equals a more fun table.
Just my advice, at least.
The nice thing about Dirty Fighting is that it entirely sidesteps the IUS argument. You wouldn't be able to take Snake Style with it, but it allows grapple feats.
Imigosh, Dirty Fighting is such a good feat for Pack Flanking Hunters!
That feat didn't exist two years ago, though, and you can't retrain an Animal Companion. If she dies, I suppose I could go that route, but Snake Style is fairly important when your large-sized can't-wear-armor Companion ever wades into combat.
Why couldn't you retrain an animal companion? To my knowledge, there is no restrictions on retraining that limit what character or creatures can make use of it.
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The retraining rules are written from the perspective of a PC. There's nothing in them that imply that they can be used on animals. A PC could retrain his animal companion class feature into a domain class feature (assuming a druid) but there aren't rules in there for how to spend time/money to retrain an animal companion. In PFS it's widely accepted that it's not legal to retrain an AC.
You can effectively retrain your animal companion by just dismissing your current one and getting a new one, anyway.
Imigosh, Dirty Fighting is such a good feat for Pack Flanking Hunters!
If you mean to help qualify for pack flanking, it's not as good as it first appears.
Special: This feat counts as having Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, and Improved Unarmed Strike for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of the various improved combat maneuver feats, as well as feats that require those improved combat maneuver feats as prerequisites.
In respect of re-training a new animal companion for PFS, remember that it comes with any bonus tricks ready trained. You can also teach one trick for each rank in handle animal you have in downtime. Even for an int 4 animal companion (12 tricks) you only need 4 ranks to fully re-train it in a single level (3 scenarios). With 3 int AC and 5 ranks you should be fully combat ready in only 2 scenarios. Taking 10 you should easily hit the DC20, as you should be aiming for +11 Handle Animal so you can't fail to order an injured companion.
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You lose tricks (and have to reteach them), it's a different companion
While that is absolutely true, it isn't much of a problem.
In PFS when you acquire a new animal companion, you start with all of your bonus tricks and once per scenario can train a number of tricks equal to your ranks in Handle Animal. A 6th level druid's companion that took INT as the 4th level attribute bump has 9 tricks and 3 bonus. You arrive at a scenario and tell the GM, "Fluffy had a long and illustrious career, but alas he is aging. I have been training Flurry, his son, since birth to some day take his place. Today is that day."
3 bonus tricks plus 6 handle animal checks (most or all of which you can take 10 for, since unless you tanked CHA your bonus is at least +10 for your companion) gets Flurry back to Fluffy's level with no down time. Yes it is a different companion, but its existence is easily justified to even the most RP-heavy player.
in PFS you need Prestige to retrain anything, which companions don't have.
Also not an issue since the Animal Companion rules allow a druid to release their companion and get a new one with a 24 hour ritual, which can be done off camera between scenarios.
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And for some people simply releasing their Companion and getting a new one isn't a viable option, either:
"Yes, Pratvah, I know we've been adventuring together for 10 years, and we have some amazing stories, but I want a Companion with 6 more hit points, and that snake over their has Toughness."
"Sssss?"
You don't need to look on it as a new companion. It's really sneaky retraining, just within the rules.
So I dug around a bit more and unearthed this blog. Which flat out says the rules are vague on this. For me that's okay because I'm not playing PFS and Dirty Fighting is a thing.
Another aspect of intelligent animals is tool use. There are a number of feats that convey an understanding and the proper use of weapons and armor. Generally speaking, these feats are off-limits to animals, but when their intelligence reaches 3, the rules state that they can use any feat that they are physically capable of using. Some people take this to mean that they can equip their animal companion in chainmail and arm him with a greatsword given the correct feats. While you could interpret the rules in this way, the "capable of use" clause is very important. Most weapons require thumbs to use properly, and even then, few animals would choose to use an artificial weapon in place of the natural weapons that have served them all their life. It's what they were born with, after all, and virtually no amount of training will change that. In the end, the GM should feel free to restrict such choices if he feels that they take away from the feel of his campaign. The rules themselves are left a little vague to give the GM the latitude to make the call that's right for his campaign.
And for some people simply releasing their Companion and getting a new one isn't a viable option, either:
"Yes, Pratvah, I know we've been adventuring together for 10 years, and we have some amazing stories, but I want a Companion with 6 more hit points, and that snake over their has Toughness."
"Sssss?"
Plenty of ways to justify it via roleplaying.
"Yes, Pratvah, I know we've been adventuring together for 10 years, and we have some amazing stories, but now you're getting older, and we both know that wound you took from the grave knight never really healed properly. I want you to live out your remaining years in peace. You've already done so much more than I had any right to ask of you. Enjoy your retirement, old friend. Don't worry about me, I'll be okay."