It doesn't let you walk through walls, either. PfE is like a wall. Your movement isn't impeded, you just can't go in that particular direction because there's a wall of alignment-specific force in your way.
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It seems to me that FOM absolutely trumps MCAE.
Is it magic that prevents your movement?
Yes?
Not anymore.
I would say it does not because all those spells directly affect the targets movement. Magic Circle spells do not directly affect your movement; they simple keep you in or out. You are still able to move around a Magic Circle and even move within an inward focused circle as long as you do not cross the barrier.
A Wall of Force is magical, but Freedom of Movement doesn't let you through.
Magic that "impedes your movement" are things that affect your ability to move *normally* (how you go) such as the examples given: solid fog, entangle, water, grappling, webs, etc. Magical effects that directly hinder your physical control of your body are also included: paralysis and slow.
It should not be interpretted as, "I can go anywhere." Wall of Ice, Wall of Force, Prismatic Sphere, and even a Circle of Protection work against you. They limit *where* you can go, not *how* you go.
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Wow, this is a very good question.
I would rule it as the following.
All creatures within the area gain the effects of a protection from evil spell, and evil summoned creatures cannot enter the area either.
Freedom of movement would allow them to ignore the movement part of the spell (blocking them from entering the area), but they would still not be allowed to attack those within the circle. There is no part of magic circle against evil that says it is physical force blocking entrance to the area, so you can't compare it to things like a stone wall. So they can enter the area and growl in your face, but that's about it.
Ah, if we want to get into the subject of binding outsiders, I'm an expert on the subject.
Yes, you would need to counteract the protean's freedom of movement ability somehow. It is a more complex but similar problem to the many outsiders who have teleport abilities. You would need to either physically lock them down or temporarily suppress the ability.
The magic circle spells do not impede movement. They simply define the space in which you can move.
Please explain the difference, because I fail to see it.
The magic circle is impeding the creatures from entering the area that the spell occupies. FOM not only makes it so you can't be pinned own, but it also allows you to sprint through things like web spells and other magical effects like they're not even there. Just because the spell does not literally use the word impede does not mean that it's not impeding movement.
Impeding you from moving into a specific space is the same thing as impeding your movement if you attempt to move into that specific space.
Ah, if we want to get into the subject of binding outsiders, I'm an expert on the subject.
Yes, you would need to counteract the protean's freedom of movement ability somehow. It is a more complex but similar problem to the many outsiders who have teleport abilities. You would need to either physically lock them down or temporarily suppress the ability.
Actually the spell specifically states that it does not prevent extra-dimensional movement like teleport unless a dimensional anchor spell is cast. It also notes that the dimensional anchor spell lasts as long as the circle. For an inward focused circle this is 24 hours per caster level.
The spell also states that the trapped outsider cannot do anything directly, or indirectly to affect the circle. It can use any ranged attacks to affect any creature within range of said attacks. The whole purpose of the inward focused circle is to trap a called outsider. It would seem that the circle of protection is more specific than freedom of movement.
Actually the spell specifically states that it does not prevent extra-dimensional movement like teleport unless a dimensional anchor spell is cast. It also notes that the dimensional anchor spell lasts as long as the circle. For an inward focused circle this is 24 hours per caster level.
...yes? I said that handing outsiders with teleportation abilities is difficult because of that exact reason. I'm not sure why you sound like you're disagreeing with me when we have the same understanding.
The spell also states that the trapped outsider cannot do anything directly, or indirectly to affect the circle. It can use any ranged attacks to affect any creature within range of said attacks. The whole purpose of the inward focused circle is to trap a called outsider. It would seem that the circle of protection is more specific than freedom of movement.
...also true? I don't know what your point is. Using freedom of movement to escape a magical effect is not affecting the circle. The outsider is not physically messing up or dispelling the circle or anything else like that; it is simply going around the magical effects of it, just like how teleport does.
The magic circle is impeding the creatures from entering the area that the spell occupies. FOM not only makes it so you can't be pinned own, but it also allows you to sprint through things like web spells and other magical effects like they're not even there. Just because the spell does not literally use the word impede does not mean that it's not impeding movement.
Impeding you from moving into a specific space is the same thing as impeding your movement if you attempt to move into that specific space.
While I have a different interpretation of FoM (see above), if you hold to this interpretation, then you must as agree that FoM lets you walk through a Wall of Force.
While I have a different interpretation of FoM (see above), if you hold to this interpretation, then you must as agree that FoM lets you walk through a Wall of Force.
False. Wall of force creates an actual physical creation. That is physically impeding you, not magically.
It's effectively a wall to the hedged creature as much as a wall of force would be
Citation please.
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I did. I read through all of it. I cannot find what you said anywhere.
The arcane method for binding outsiders is more difficult. First, a binder must create a trap, a magic circle focused inward. Typically the circle is outlined in a substance that is anathema to the outsider he wishes to summon. He must protect this circle against any sort of disruption, for even the smallest variation in its energies opens the circle and allows the escape of the creature he has summoned. It is for this reason that most binders’ lairs are in high towers or deep dungeons, far from wind or pests. When an arcane caster speaks the words of the planar binding spell, the outsider can resist via a Will saving throw, with no aid from its spell resistance. If it fails the save, the magic circle draws it inexorably into the trap. Once there, the outsider can pit its spell resistance as a check against the caster’s level, attempt to flee via dimensional travel, or attempt to overcome the spell by imposing its spiritual presence with a Charisma check (DC 15 + 1/2 the caster’s level + the caster’s Charisma modifier). Succeeding at any of these checks breaks the binding, and a fortunate binder suffers no additional harm from such a breach; the annoyed outsider just leaves. This is not always the case, however.
Some outsiders lash out at their failed binders. Because of this, many binders take additional precautions: a second magic circle in which they can stand, and dimensional anchor cast within the magic circle to prevent the conjured outsider from fleeing instantly. A tremendously powerful wizard or sorcerer might even use trap the soul on his victim, forcing it into a prepared vessel until it agrees to the binder’s strictures.
Smart arcane binders often make deals with the creatures they call. Like clerics using planar ally, they bargain and shower the outsider with gifts in exchange for their services. While it is always good for an arcane spellcaster to make these deals from a position of strength, it is much better to get the outsider to come to mutually agreed upon terms for the service, rather than forcing it to commit actions against its nature or desires.
The rest of the section only briefly mentions magic circle with no relevant text.
So, unless you can come up with a citation, you're wrong.
So yes, my interpretation is correct. They can move within the circle, but they cannot touch anybody inside of it.
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Right, but they also can't use Freedom of Movement to pass through it.
Yes, they can. It is magically impeding movement, and freedom of movement allows you to ignore magical effects that impede movement. Do you have any source that proves magic circle prevents movement by something other than magic, such as conjuring up a physical wall?
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You know, the very fact that creatures can pass through the circle using Spell Resistance seems to show that it's not just a physical barrier conjured by the spell - when they try to pass through, the spell is directly affecting them with some sort of magic that prevents them from moving through it.
+1
Wall and circle spells are not anything like the examples listed in freedom of movement, so they do not count as 'impeding movement' and cannot be bypassed by the spell.
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web.
The list very clearly states that it is not all-inclusive to every effect that it helps with. To do that would make the spell description pages long and required to be updated every time another book came out.
Part of magic circle impedes movement. The other part protects those inside the circle. The summoned creatures would ignore the former part of the spell. It would come into the circle and growl in your face, unable to touch you.
Also, wall spells and circle spells are vastly, vastly, different. They're literally not even in the same school of magic.
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The list very clearly states that it is not all-inclusive to every effect that it helps with. To do that would make the spell description pages long and required to be updated every time another book came out.
Thus it is up to the GM what qualifies and what does not. I do not count Magic Circle or Wall spells as counting.
The list very clearly states that it is not all-inclusive to every effect that it helps with. To do that would make the spell description pages long and required to be updated every time another book came out.Thus it is up to the GM what qualifies and what does not. I do not count Magic Circle or Wall spells as counting.
If you wanted you could houserule it otherwise, but it's not RAW or even RAI. Wall spells create physical creations that block movement. That physically impedes movement. Magic circle magically blocks movement, because in no part of the spell description does it say anything about creating a physical creation. Therefore, RAW, freedom of movement allows you to move through magic circles. That's not GM discretion, that's either going with RAW or houseruling it otherwise.
A magic circle doesn't impede movement. It restricts passage. The circle is a barrier, not a hinderance or impediment.
Within the confines of the circle something within can move around just fine. The circle is like a small room. Think of it like a jail cell.
A magic circle doesn't impede movement. It restricts passage. The circle is a barrier, not a hinderance.
Within the confines of the circle something within can move around just fine. The circle is like a small room, not like something holding a creature in place.
Think of it like a jail cell.
Citation please?
All creatures within the area gain the effects of a protection from evil spell, and evil summoned creatures cannot enter the area either.This spell wards a creature from attacks by evil creatures, from mental control, and from summoned creatures. It creates a magical barrier around the subject at a distance of 1 foot.
^ Already cited in this thread.
The term 'barrier' is extremely clear.
Compare that with the cited examples in the Freedom of Movement description. Solid Fog, grapples, entanglements, etc.
Those things aren't barriers.
Correct, the protection from evil aspect of the spell would still hold fast. As I have already said, the creature would still be unable to attack anything within the boundaries of the circle. However, the magic circle does not say "The entire area is protected from evil as the spell, creating a magical barrier around the area". It says they can't enter the area, and each individual person within the area is subject to a protection from evil spell. I have already gone over this above, multiple times, that it only allows you to ignore the movement aspect of the spell but not the protection aspect of it.
There is a certain scenario I know of where there is a Protean trapped in a Magic Circle, and is so until certain outside magical effects destroy the circle itself. I'd take this as Paizo taking a stance on this question.
Citation please?
Edit: Also, if it's just a scenario and some NPC has bound them, then we don't know how they were bound. There are plenty of ways to get around it, there just needs to be more measures taken beyond the magic circle itself, similar to when you're binding outsiders who can teleport.
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There is a certain scenario I know of where there is a Protean trapped in a Magic Circle, and is so until certain outside magical effects destroy the circle itself. I'd take this as Paizo taking a stance on this question.Citation please?
Edit: sorry, forgot to spoiler
There is a certain scenario I know of where there is a Protean trapped in a Magic Circle, and is so until certain outside magical effects destroy the circle itself. I'd take this as Paizo taking a stance on this question.Citation please?Spoiler:Siege of Serpents, final encounter.
Do you have a link? I don't own that. Also, see edit above.
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I do not have a link to it. And I'm not sure I can link to it without breaking certain agreements with Paizo as it is a convention special. Otherwise I would find a way to link it to you, since I do own the scenario and a dropbox.
To your edit, what exactly could be done to prevent the any Protean's Freedom of Movement?
Well I wish we could look at it more closely, because it seems compelling.
Physically chaining them down. Building a cage. Resilient sphere. Wall of stone. Prismatic sphere (wouldn't technically stop them, but they probably won't try to go through it). That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty more spells that would help that create physical barriers.
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Well I wish we could look at it more closely, because it seems compelling.
Physically chaining them down. Building a cage. Resilient sphere. Wall of stone. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty more spells that would help that create physical barriers.
I can assure you that none of those are in there. As well, I would think that it could still get out of being chained down, I believe it would be considered a grapple for freedom of movement.
I don't know what you mean by "I can assure you that none of those are in there". Do you mean the example you provided but can't source? No point in talking about it since only you can examine it.
You're right, chains wouldn't work. The rest of my examples still do.