Hunter am smash!

[chuffster]

Is it just me, or does a three level dip in Hunter really turbocharge the Mounted Fury barbarian? The half-orc teamwork feats seem like they had their power level set based on the assumption that you would have to coordinate a bunch of (half) orcs to get them, rather than using something like Hunter Tactics to give it to your animal companion.

Let's look at a build.

Smashy McChargington:

Half-orc Hunter 3/Barbarian 2

STR: 20 (17 + 2 racial + 1 4th level)
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 11
CHA: 7

Feats/Rage powers:
1: Hunter (Power Attack)
2: Hunter (Outflank)
3: Hunter (Spirited Charge, Horde Charge)
4: Barbarian
5: Barbarian (Ferocious Mount, Amplified Rage)

At level 5 I think it's reasonable to assume he has a +1 weapon.

With animal focus (bull) or a belt, Smashy can push his strength to 30 when he rages. When he two hands a lance, power attacks and charges, he's going to be at +17 to hit (4 BAB + 1 weapon + 2 charge + 2 horde charge + 10 STR bonus -2 PA) for damage of 3 * (1d8 + 1 weapon + 2 horde charge + 15 STR bonus + 6 PA), an average of 85.5 points if my math is right.

A mounted fury who can't use the teamwork feats is going to be at +13 to hit and 70.5 on the damage. He's also more limited in his choice of mount. At level 7 Smashy can take boon companion, flip over to an axebeak, and then AFAICT his mount will be able to make attacks on the charge as well (at a cool 26 STR, +2 to hit/damage from horde charge, and a bonus trip tacked on to the end).

Does going straight barbarian give you anything that you lose out on by taking the dip? I guess the obvious one is more rounds of rage, but it seems like you wouldn't need that many if each charge is vaporizing a bad guy. Losing the 1 BAB seems well worth it for the teamwork feats.

Is there some long term loss from losing the three levels of barbarian? Ragelancepounce comes online pretty late in a PFS character's career, and I'm honestly not sure it outclasses amplified rage by enough to be worth the wait.

[Deighton Thrane]

How are you getting spirited charge without taking any of it's prerequisites? Also, yes, hunter is a great dip for a mounted charging class, because it lets you use wands of feather step without losing an animal companion level, or the ability to wear metal armor.

[chuffster]

Deighton Thrane wrote:

How are you getting spirited charge without taking any of it's prerequisites? Also, yes, hunter is a great dip for a mounted charging class, because it lets you use wands of feather step without losing an animal companion level, or the ability to wear metal armor.

Very good point. Take that out, substitute in boon companion, and it takes our damage down to a mere 57 points on the charge plus whatever the axebeak does.

Level 6 is probably then Fighter (Dragoon) to pick up one pre-req, then level 7 retrain amplified rage into the other, get spirited charge, and use the Hunter free swap to switch horde charge into amplified rage.

I think that's still ahead of the straight Mounted Fury from 1-7 in terms of damage potential, though I don't know exactly what the optimal Mounted Fury looks like at each level.

[Deighton Thrane]

Personally I don't think mounted fury is actually a good archetype. It locks you into using certain animals as mounts and doesn't provide a mount until level 5. The extra 10 movement speed isn't really useful unless you're riding a slow mount. Frankly 1 level barbarian plus 1 level of dragoon, then X of hunter is probably a better build. Or beastmaster ranger for that matter, if you're already wanting boon companion.

[666bender]

i think a pure hunter us just better.
yes, your charge will do a bit less, but the versatility and team gang attacks will allow more then a single trick.

a trip master hunter on a wolf with tandem trip is amazing.
even a grappler isnt bad - with str bonus, auto flank +4 bonus, and team feats - his CMB can be decent.

[Kefler]

I don't know , mounted combat always seemed so limiting for me , looks good on paper but in practice you are less than optimal allot of times.

now if you took a badger companion with a hunter with one level barb this would work .

actually i would probably take a 2 level dip into wild rager .

and would take this feat for flavor :
Wild Flanking (Betrayal, Teamwork)

When flanking, you use your position to rain grievous blows upon a trapped foe, though you have little regard to the well-being of your flanking partner as you wildly hack away.

Prerequisite(s): Power Attack, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit(s): When you are flanking an opponent with an ally who also possesses this feat, you can throw yourself into your attacks in such a way that your opponent takes extra damage, at the risk of these attacks striking your ally as well. When you choose to use this feat, check the results of your attack roll against both your opponent's AC and your ally's AC. If you hit your opponent, you deal bonus damage as though you were using Power Attack. If you hit your ally, the ally takes no damage from your attack except this bonus damage. It is possible to hit both your enemy and your abettor with one attack. Extra damage from this feat stacks with Power Attack.

the inquisitor with the Sacred Huntsmaster (Archetype) would work prety good to

[TarkXT]

Kefler wrote:

I don't know , mounted combat always seemed so limiting for me , looks good on paper but in practice you are less than optimal allot of times.

That's why you treat it as a secondary option that you enter combat with rather than a mainstay.

Simple easy lesson I try to teach all the cavaliers I meet too.

You don't even have to take the full suite of feats but they all help.

[Tsutsuku]

You won't need the dip in Hunter at all if you want to just get a Horsemaster's Saddle. It basically gives you Hunter's Tactics for 12k and some nice bonuses to some checks as icing. I'd think about going Cavalier 4/Barbarian x with the Horse Master feat and/or be a half-orc with the Beast Rider feat on the Mounted Fury archetype.

Animal Focus is nice but not really that necessary. Enjoy your extra rage rounds and powers instead. :)