[Spheres of Power] Broken as hell or not?


Advice and Rules Questions


I don't think it is, but a few players are reluctant, thinking it is too abusable.

So, anyone willing to present builds here that break the hell out of Spheres of Power?


Nothing? :(


As far as I'm aware the only thing that is even sorcerer level in power is the conjuration sphere.


I've seen some complaints about the conjuration sphere, but unless your DM lets you abuse the casting traditions and some other rules it's not that bad. That said, I still only allow them to have one summon out at a given time, mostly for ease of play and running on my part.


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Lets put it this way.

If Spheres of Power fit your definition of abusable you in no way shape or form want to include 9th level casters in your campaign.


The Death Sphere gives you Enervation at level 1, at 1 hour/CL at close range. You can get up to 10 Spell Points at first level to power it, meaning 10 times a day you can decrease a creatures effective HD to zero. This particular effect doesn't kill them outright, but they still take the penalties. If their effective HD reaches zero, they don't die but take 4 points of Con drain for the duration. At 12th level with a metamagic feat you can extend the time to a full 24 hours for an additional Spell Point.

This effect starts at 1 negative level per use, then upgrades to 1d2 at CL 5, 1d3 at CL 10, 1d4 at CL 15, and 1d6 at CL 20.

Alternatively, you can turn this into a close-range cone, allowing you to make a ranged touch attack against everyone in the area.

Raising skeletons and zombies is also pretty OP using the same trick I described in another thread, using a multiclass Thaumaturge, taking the Master of Death feat, plus getting caster level bonuses from your other classes.

General Invisibility is slightly nerfed. Instead of a +20 to your Stealth check for being invisible, you only gain a bonus equal to the caster level of the mage that cast it on you. It's still a very useful ability.

Being a healer got a lot easier. Taking the Life Sphere, you can give a character Fast Healing up to 5 points a round for a number of minutes equal to your caster level. It is extremely resource intensive though, so I don't recommend going whole hog at level 1. You also get the ability to restore ability score damage at level 1, with that ability getting better with more talents.

The whole deal with Spheres of Power is that each caster had very limited resources, both in the number of Magic Talents he has to purchase Spheres and upgrades to those Spheres, and the number of Spell Points in a day he has. If he has no Spell Points, he can still do something each round at a lesser effect with the Spheres he has. Except Conjuration. If you put everything into Conjuration, you literally have nothing better to do than watch your Summons fight because you have a crossbow ands no feats for it.

The only class that has a level of versatility on par with Vancian casting is the Sphere Arcanist, which you can pick up using the second Spheres of Power book. He can swap out any Spheres and talents he gains from his Arcanist levels for any other Spheres and talents when he regains Spell Points after rest. He only gains 2 talents each even numbered level, and cannot change his talents gained from feats, other classes, or his two bonus talents gained for taking his first level in a class with the Casting class feature.

I'd say for your money, Spheres of Power is fine. Solid classes, really nifty at-will abilities, and the ability to build around a concept rather than trying to fill your spell slots with what you think might be useful.


I'm working on building a number of characters up to level 12. The one I'm currently building has a small number of cool abilities.

Serante Quickso, heir presumptive to the Lamansa family estate. His uncle is the current lord. Serante has been told that he needs to get out and see the world for at least a year, as he's been in the mansion holding parties on his uncle's dime or lose his line in succession. What Serante doesn't know is that his uncle is about to marry, and has an heir to be born soon.

Serante Quickso, Half-orc Mageknight 12, has the Warp Sphere with Emergency Teleport, the ability to Rage for 4 rounds power spell point as a move action, can fly, and can deal 6d6 per spell point of a Destructive Blast, or 3d6 without spending a Spell Point, which at this point he has more than he knows what to do with. He has the ability to heal for small amounts, but isn't a dedicated healer by any stretch. He can negate any effect that requires a Fort or Will save that has a partial effect on a successful save. He has damage resistance against magical effects. I'm trying my hardest to fit Quicken Spell into his feats, but it's really hard when Extra Magic Talent is just sitting right there, begging to be taken. He's also a pretty good party face (Cha as his casting stat).

He's a Bloodrager, or a Paladin with an expanded spell list.

I also updated my multiclass master of Conjuration to instead be a Wizard, Sorcerer, Incanter that, while doesn't get up to CL 31, does get a LOT more creatures (at a lower amount of hit dice) than the Thaumaturge abomination. But they're just meat shields.

I made up am NPC Sphere Paladin that took Conjuration and Boon Companion (Form Talent) for a flanking buddy. His Companion, Aiax, wields spear and shield, which he uses to help train new Paladins in rudimentary combat. This Paladin is level 7, so his Conjuration abilities will poop out eventually.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Umbral Reaver wrote:

I don't think it is, but a few players are reluctant, thinking it is too abusable.

So, anyone willing to present builds here that break the hell out of Spheres of Power?

it's only abusable in that the character becomes a one trick pony

it's like a high T3 or low T2, T2 being stuff like conjuration or MAYBE someone who just grabs spheres from all over.


Bandw2 wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:

I don't think it is, but a few players are reluctant, thinking it is too abusable.

So, anyone willing to present builds here that break the hell out of Spheres of Power?

it's only abusable in that the character becomes a one trick pony

it's like a high T3 or low T2, T2 being stuff like conjuration or MAYBE someone who just grabs spheres from all over.

The way I see it, you can do something incredibly broken. But that will be the only thing you will do.

Otherwise you can do a couple of things reasonably well and be a tier 3 character as opposed to a tier 6.


A lot of Spheres of Power classes don't have full caster level. Should players be allowed to take such traits as Magical Knack or such feats as Practiced Spellcaster? Does that break the balance between low, mid and high caster progressions?

Dark Archive

Pretty sure it's suggested not to allow things like that. They work on an entirely different balancing structure (where it's a given that everyone will get/wants full caster level). The SoP stuff is perfectly usable even without a full caster level (that's the whole point, after all!) and that trait and feat are SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful in a SoP game for that reason.

Can you use it without breaking everything? Probably. Will it clearly make your players stronger for minimal investment? Absolutely.


Hmm. I'll suggest that to my friends and see if that makes them more amenable to trying out the system. They might be viewing it with those CL boosts in mind.

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I haven't played a campaign with Spheres of Power, but it looks like the system stabilizes the power curve of spellcasters. In other words, their early game becomes much stronger. I think they can even get flight and short range teleportation at 1st level. However, they don't get super campaign changing abilities like teleporting across continents and wish. So their early game is much stronger, but their late game is much weaker.

Also, if I remember correctly, pretty much any character can take a feat to get a sphere, so the fighter/wizard disparity is slightly reduced.

Scarab Sages

Umbral Reaver wrote:
A lot of Spheres of Power classes don't have full caster level. Should players be allowed to take such traits as Magical Knack or such feats as Practiced Spellcaster? Does that break the balance between low, mid and high caster progressions?

Caster level for SoP characters is completely different then Vancian caster level. It is not recommended that you allow traits, items, etc. designed to interact with Vancian casting to pump spherecasting CL.

I actually replaced Vancian casting in my campaigns entirely with the spherecastinf system, specifically because it's so much better balanced. Well, the balance, and because it does a better job of encompassing just about any character concept you can come up with.


Cyrad wrote:

I haven't played a campaign with Spheres of Power, but it looks like the system stabilizes the power curve of spellcasters. In other words, their early game becomes much stronger. I think they can even get flight and short range teleportation at 1st level. However, they don't get super campaign changing abilities like teleporting across continents and wish. So their early game is much stronger, but their late game is much weaker.

Also, if I remember correctly, pretty much any character can take a feat to get a sphere, so the fighter/wizard disparity is slightly reduced.

This is one reason our next campaign will likely be using spheres of power because you don't get this "start out weak, and suddenly rocket beyond everyone else" problem you get with 9th level casters. There are ways to get power, such as incantations and rituals, but they're not something you can whip up on the fly.


You'll find things that can be abused with any supplement book with a significant amount of content, Sphere of Power included. Heck, even Psionics (which is very well-received) has things that you can do to abuse it. So yes, there are broken combos in the book, and if you abuse them the entire book will appear to be unbalanced.

You should not judge an entire book on a few "deadly combinations", though, any more than you should judge all of Pathfinder on stuff like Leadership and Simulacrum.

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