I'd like some advice for a character I've been thinking about the past few days. The thread about recreating Mortal Kombat's Kitana got me on this track. It's the first time I've actually planned a character beyond low-level, so I'd like some feedback on my plans.
Concept: Agile and charismatic trickster. Uses fighting fans in combat, feinting for sneak attack. I'd really like to grab Vulpine Pounce in the end, to capitalize on TWF and scout's charge. Should have useful social skills outside combat.
Race: Kitsune
Classes: Unchained rogue (Scout, Poisoner), Brawler (Snakebite striker), Fighter (Brawler)
Starting stats: Str 11, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16
Traits: Reactionary, second undecided (Will save boost?)
Rogue 1: Realistic likeness (Kitsune feat for Disguise). Finesse, +1d6 SA. Use a rapier until level 4.
Rogue 2: Slippery mind
Brawler 1: Combat reflexes, +2d6 SA, weapon proficiencies
Rogue 3: Dex to damage with fighting fan
Brawler 2: Brawlers Flurry, Bonus feat (Two-weapon feint)
Rogue 4: Debilitating injury, Scout's charge, Feat Steadfast personality (Cha to Will), Weapon training talent (Fighting fan)
Fighter 1: Bonus feat (Improved two-weapon fighting)
Fighter 2: Bonus feat (Weapon specialization: Fighting fan)
Fighter 3: Close combatant (+1 attack, +3 damage with fighting fan). Feat Swift kitsune shapechanger
Fighter 4: Bonus feat (Piranha strike)
Fighter 5:
Fighter 6: Feat (Vulpine Pounce), Bonus feat (Greater two-weapon fighting)
Some problems I faced when doing this build:
– I have a lot of non-combat feats I'd like to get. This means most of my regular feats are tied up.
– It might take way too long to get the build useful? Am I trying to do too much?
– I feel like I'm spending a lot of effort to get in sneak attacks, just for +3d6. Is it worth it in the end?
– In order to have enough feats, I spend a lot of levels in martial classes. My skill points will be stretched really thin beying level 6.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not too keen on keeping martial flexibility: I'm not terribly experience in Pathfinder and I don't think I can take full advantage of adding feats on the fly. Also, I think the flat +3 from the Fighter archetype makes up for the loss of the damage die increase.
I've been working some more on my intended progression. I picked up the TWF feat on level 2 (as a stand-in for Brawler's Flurry) and ditched the feinting aspect, which also 'allowed' me to pick up knife master: since I won't feint a lot, the reason for the fighting fans has diminished. When I finally get Brawler's Flurry, I'll retrain the rogue talent I initially used for TWF. It's still a right fit to get all my feat in time, with the various requirements on BAB and fighter level, but I got in everything I wanted.
Concept: Agile and charismatic trickster. Uses punching daggers in combat, sneak attack as a bonus when it's available. I'd really like to grab Vulpine Pounce in the end, to capitalize on TWF and scout's charge. Should have useful social skills outside combat.
Race: Kitsune
Classes: Unchained rogue (Scout, Knife Master), Brawler (Snakebite striker), Fighter (Brawler)
Starting stats: Str 11, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16
Traits: Reactionary, Irrepressible
Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy, Perception, Stealth, Disable device, Perform (Act)
Feat and talent progression:
UC Rogue 1: Realistic likeness feat
UC Rogue 2: Talent (Two-weapon fighting)
UC Rogue 3: Iron Will
UC Rogue 4: Talent (slow reactions)
Brawler 1:
Brawler 2: Weapon focus, Piranha strike, Retrain 2nd-level Rogue talent to Distracting attack (or the Battle Cry feat?)
Fighter 1: Improved two-weapon fighting
Fighter 2: Weapon specialization
Fighter 3: Swift kitsune shapechanger
Brawler 3:
Fighter 4: Vulpine Pounce
Fighter 5: Greater two-weapon fighting
Instead of spending your prestige on retraining, why not do your progression like this?
1st Rogue 1
2nd Brawler 1
3rd Brawler 2
Ultimately, it'll leave you with 2d6 sneak attack (the same as if you had gone 3 levels of rogue, same BAB, and not one, but TWO feats up. (You wouldn't need to take Two-Weapon Fighting and Brawlers get a bonus feat at 2nd level.) You don't have a Strength penalty, so while getting finesse training later (rather than sooner) stinks, you're not
What, exactly, does the slow reactions talent do for your build? I'm assuming you're going to 4th level for debilitating injury.
Also, I'm not sure why you're dipping into fighter. Brawler levels count as fighter levels for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites, so if you let the brawler's flurry class feature progress naturally instead of dipping fighter to take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting yourself (which I'm not even sure if doing so is mechanically legal or not), you could have Improved Two-Weapon Fighting as a class feature by character level 12, then spend your bonus brawler feat on getting Greater Two-Weapon Fighting.
I'd change to something like this:
1st rogue (Weapon Finesse bonus, Iron Will)
2nd brawler (Improved Unarmed Strike bonus)
3rd brawler (brawler's flurry, Weapon Focus: punching dagger, Piranha Strike bonus)
4th rogue (rogue talent: combat trick: Combat Expertise)
5th rogue (finesse training, Improved Feint)
6th rogue (rogue talent: slow reactions)
7th brawler (Swift Kitsune Shapechanger)
8th brawler
9th brawler (Weapon Specialization: punching dagger, Two-Weapon Feint bonus)
10th brawler
11th brawler (Vulpine Pounce)
12th brawler (Improved Two-Weapon Feint)
If I'm being SUPER honest, I'd probably drop Iron Will and take Combat Expertise at 1st level instead so I'd have Improved Two-Weapon Feint by 9th level instead. The ability to make sure that you always have sneak attack (and you'll have 6d6 by 12th level using this build; as much as an 18th-level slayer) is fantastic, and honestly, its better than having Weapon Specialization or an extra attack from Greater Two-Weapon Fighting.
Thanks for the suggestions and the detailed write-up. To be honest, I was getting a bit frustrated with this character. It didn't come out the way I wanted and I felt my concept wavering, so I let it rest for a few days. With your suggestions, I think I now have a path I'm happy about. I'm convinced that going rogue/brawler will allow me to pick up the things I want. (I don't think I get 6d6 sneak attack, though. The brawler only gets her second sneak attack dice at level 6).
Here's what I've got:
Kitsune trickster/striker
Concept: Agile and charismatic trickster, capable of dealing unexpected and punishing unarmed strike, couple with a fan for distraction.
Classes: Unchained rogue (Scout, Knife Master), Brawler (Snakebite striker), Fighter (Brawler)
Starting stats: Str 11, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16
Traits: Irrepressible, Reactionary (or Fashionable)
Rogue (Spy, Scout)
Brawler (Snakerbit striker)
1 : Rogue 1 - Weapon finesse, realistic likeness, SA +1d6
2 : Brawler 1 - Improved unarmed strike, SA +2d6
3 : Rogue 2 - Combat expertise, Talent Sap adept
4 : Rogue 3 - Dex to damage (unarmed), SA +3d6
5 : Brawler 2 - Flurry (TWF), Weapon focus (unarmed), Bonus Two-weapon feint
6 : Rogue 4 - Debilitating injury, Scout's charge, talent Slow reactions
7 : Brawler 3 - Swift kitsune shapechanger
8 : Brawler 4 -
9 : Brawler 5 - Weapon specialization (unarmed), bonus feat (Improved two-weapon fighting)
10: Brawler 6 - Sneak attack +4d6
11: Brawler 7 - Vulpine pounce
12: Brawler 8 - IWTF, Bonus Piranha strike, use Brawler ability to retrain ITWF to Sap Master)
This gives me Dex to damage at level 4, allows me to two-weapon feint as soon as I get flurry. By going Unarmed strike I get the higher damage dice from Brawler, and this opens up the Sap feat chain to give my sneak attack dice some extra punch. With my hands free, I can wield a Fighting fan for the bonus to feinting, and in case I need to do Piercing or Slashing damage.
I picture myself an opening with scout's charge and a sneak attack, which triggers Slow reactions to allow my companion's into flanking positions. If they can't, I can make use of two-weapon feint to get my sneak attack in. I didn't see much use for Improved Feint (since I have Scout's charge), so I left that one out. My Will save might be too low, but I hope irrepressible fixes that mostly without costing me feats. I might skip on weapon specialization, if I find out I'm failing too many Will saves.