Tranquil Guardian's Touch of Serenity with a ranged weapon?

[calartnick]

Is it possible to use it on a bow?

Touch of Serenity:

You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). On a successful hit, the attack deals no damage and bestows no other effect or condition, but the target cannot cast spells or attack (including attacks of opportunity and attacks as immediate actions) for 1 round unless it succeeds on a Will saving throw with a DC of 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wisdom modifier. You may attempt a touch of serenity once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round.

As far as I can see it doesn't state that you need to utilize a melee attack to use the feat, though improved unarmed strike is normally a prereq. Does anyone know the official rule?

[Ashram]

RAI, it should be an unarmed strike.

RAW, doesn't appear that it precludes you from using a ranged attack.

[Archaeik]

From the table entry for Touch of Serenity

Quote:

Foes hit by unarmed strikes cannot attack or cast spells

[calartnick]

Archaeik wrote:

From the table entry for Touch of Serenity

Quote:

Foes hit by unarmed strikes cannot attack or cast spells

That's a good point, I didn't see that. However, the tranquil guardian doesn't gain unarmed strike and maybe I shouldn't assume, but I feel like the if the designers wanted the tranquil guardian to use this ability with only unarmed strikes they would have given it as a bonus feat. But maybe I'm reaching.

[calartnick]

Especially when looking at the serene strike ability: At 3rd level, when a tranquil guardian confirms a critical hit, she may convert all damage from her attack to nonlethal damage, and when she does, she can activate Touch of Serenity through her weapon or unarmed strike. Using serene strike is a free action.

At least this way touch of serenity can be used through a weapon, and again doesn't specify melee.

[Imbicatus]

Like Pummeling Style, the feat is clearly intended to be used with unarmed strikes only. Due to not explicitly stating that, like Pummeling Style, going by pure RAW and ignoring everything but the rules text, it is not prohibited from being used with other weapons by the feat itself. If this ever gets FAQed, it will be to unarmed strikes only.

If anyone tried using this with a bow(unless they were a 17th level Zen Archer using Ki Focus Bow), I would through something heavy at them.

EDIT: I just looked up Tranquil Guardian, and since the TQ specifically alters the feat, I would allow it with them as well, since specific trumps general. But if it was just the feat, no way without a ki focus or conductive weapon.

[Archaeik]

calartnick wrote:

Especially when looking at the serene strike ability: At 3rd level, when a tranquil guardian confirms a critical hit, she may convert all damage from her attack to nonlethal damage, and when she does, she can activate Touch of Serenity through her weapon or unarmed strike. Using serene strike is a free action.

At least this way touch of serenity can be used through a weapon, and again doesn't specify melee.

After reviewing the archetype, and given the lack of IUS coupled with "even if you don't meet the prereqs", I'm mostly inclined to agree, but I can't tell if the author is purposely taking advantage of the feat text to make it a "viable" replacement for Smite Evil, or if he also thought Smite was restricted to melee...

Smite is already pretty powerful when optimized for range, and ToS would be too, as it removes most of the risk/effort of closing to the caster. I wouldn't allow ToS for anything but melee attacks. (ymmv though)
Also, keep in mind a Zen Archer has to be level 17 before they could use ToS at range as a point for comparison.

But, I agree with Imbicatus that using the feat this way is on treacherous ground because it would need an exemption (like Zen Archer and Perfect Strike) if this gets FAQ'd, however unlikely that event is.

[calartnick]

Archaeik wrote:

calartnick wrote:

Especially when looking at the serene strike ability: At 3rd level, when a tranquil guardian confirms a critical hit, she may convert all damage from her attack to nonlethal damage, and when she does, she can activate Touch of Serenity through her weapon or unarmed strike. Using serene strike is a free action.

At least this way touch of serenity can be used through a weapon, and again doesn't specify melee.

After reviewing the archetype, and given the lack of IUS coupled with "even if you don't meet the prereqs", I'm mostly inclined to agree, but I can't tell if the author is purposely taking advantage of the feat text to make it a "viable" replacement for Smite Evil, or if he also thought Smite was restricted to melee...

Smite is already pretty powerful when optimized for range, and ToS would be too, as it removes most of the risk/effort of closing to the caster. I wouldn't allow ToS for anything but melee attacks. (ymmv though)
Also, keep in mind a Zen Archer has to be level 17 before they could use ToS at range as a point for comparison.

But, I agree with Imbicatus that using the feat this way is on treacherous ground because it would need an exemption (like Zen Archer and Perfect Strike) if this gets FAQ'd, however unlikely that event is.

I feel like that's fair. I'm not too familiar with this ability as a monk or zen archer, so I can't comment on that. Other than the prereq for unarmed strike and the name "TOUCH of serenity," to me I don't see why it needs to be restricted to certain types of attacks. I know there are other abilities with the prereq of unarmed strike that you can use with weapons, so I dunno. Replacing smite evil, which is waaaay better and can be used with range, I don't see it as being over powered as a ranged attack, but that's just me

[Archaeik]

calartnick wrote:

I feel like that's fair. I'm not too familiar with this ability as a monk or zen archer, so I can't comment on that. Other than the prereq for unarmed strike and the name "TOUCH of serenity," to me I don't see why it needs to be restricted to certain types of attacks. I know there are other abilities with the prereq of unarmed strike that you can use with weapons, so I dunno. Replacing smite evil, which is waaaay better and can be used with range, I don't see it as being over powered as a ranged attack, but that's just me

It's the difference between more consistently dealing extra damage and totally shutting down a creature's offense...

Yes, they can maybe try to hide until it wears off, but it's a pretty bad status effect overall, moreso against dedicated casters.

I agree that smite is better based on having no save and total duration, but ToS is potentially more effective when it sticks at the right time. I'd consider opening it up to ranged weapons, but probably not right from level 1.