Since there's a class with masks hanging about in playtest form, I decided to do some tweaking to one of my own and bring the new product out for show.
Lemme know what you all think!
I don't think there are really enough masques to justify the amount of masques you can end up with, feats included. there would end up with way much overlap between characters.
I agree on that, I'd like to add more soon, and there aren't too many at early levels as-is, thanks for the feed back.
You should go over this whenever you can to correct spellings, and grammar, clarity. I also suggest paying more attention to what gets capitalized and what is supposed to be lower case. For example, ability sccores, abbreviated ability scores, name of feats, and names of skills are all capitalized.
INTRO
I encourage you to build on this section. Develop the concept further.
SKILLS
In standard Pathfinder style, abbreviated ability scores are capitalized. For example, change (dex) to (Dex). And I'm sure I do not need to point out that Seduction is not a Pathfinder skill, which I think is intentional.
BAB
There's nothing wrong with this class having a full base attack bonus, but it feels to me that lowering it to a 3/4 base attack would allow you to add more class features, possibly to emphasize the supernatural abilities to the masks.
PROFICIENCIES
The list of weapons feels long and clunky. If you keep a full BAB, then just change it to all simple and martial weapons. If you should change it to 3/4 BAB, make the list more like that of a rogue or bard. Also, I feel the difference between proficiency in just bucklers vs all normal shields is very, very small and that you might as well change it to all shield except tower shields.
1000 FACES
Having a number in the name feels a little strange. How about Many Faces? Capitalize both skills.
MASQUE
I recommend rewriting the main entry of this class feature. It is unclear and has mistakes. Also, I think that having physical, tangible masks can lead to problems. There is no discussion on how the mask is obtained or what happens if it is lost or broken. I recommend that the mask be completely supernatural. Maybe it appears in his hand and he puts it on, maybe it just materializes on his face. A lost or broken mask can be called back to him at full hit points.
SPELLS
I strongly recommend changing this to work like the paladin or ranger style of spellcasting.
Seduction is a sort of joke skill our group uses. i agree with the weapons list being a bit clunky, full BAB classes usually have all simple and martial, do they not?
You should go over this whenever you can to correct spellings, and grammar, clarity. I also suggest paying more attention to what gets capitalized and what is supposed to be lower case. For example, ability scores, abbreviated ability scores, name of feats, and names of skills are all capitalized.
So far, I've fixed the capitalization problems, and spelling seems correct as far as I can tell.
SKILLS
Fixed
BAB
I actually kinda like how this stands at the moment, although I see what you mean about adding abilities.
PROFICIENCIES
Fixed, but I do kind of miss the unique list. It felt more on theme.
1000 FACES
The name is a reference to a literary trope, The Hero With 1000 Faces. the ability doesn't exactly fit the idea in the book but you can easily see the inspiration. I'd like to keep it.
MASQUE
I don't see how the text has mistakes exactly, can you elaborate? But I do agree something should be added to explain how/if the Masque can be stolen, and what happens if it breaks, will add details on this after work.
SPELLS
Will think on this point some more after work.
If anyone else has anything to add that they think would be helpful, please chime in!
I agree with Cairan Barnes's comments.
The class's role feels a bit undefined and their abilities are all over the place. The class lacks unique game mechanics to make it worth picking over any other class. If I wanted to play an assassin jester master-of-disguise kind of guy, I'd be better off playing a bard or a rogue. Heck, this class steals abilities from those two classes!
The Masque ability has so much pointless bloat, and it's ultimately just a glorified cleric domain. The ability consists of 199 words, but only 60 of them talk about actual mechanics. All it says is that the class gets a magic hat that only works when they wear it and they get some powers when they do. There's almost no actual description of what this hat is.
And yes, the "1000 Faces" ability should be called "One Thousand Faces" or something like that.
I agree with Cairan Barnes's comments.
The class's role feels a bit undefined and their abilities are all over the place. The class lacks unique game mechanics to make it worth picking over any other class. If I wanted to play an assassin jester master-of-disguise kind of guy, I'd be better off playing a bard or a rogue. Heck, this class steals abilities from those two classes!
The Masque ability has so much pointless bloat, and it's ultimately just a glorified cleric domain. The ability consists of 199 words, but only 60 of them talk about actual mechanics. All it says is that the class gets a magic hat that only works when they wear it and they get some powers when they do. There's almost no actual description of what this hat is.
And yes, the "1000 Faces" ability should be called "One Thousand Faces" or something like that.
I agree that the Masque was worded rather poorly. It was a badly done attempt to put some flavor text in the ability, let me know what you think of my adjustments and how I can improve it further.
Though I have to argue that while "Murder-Jester" is certainly do-able, and indeed the "default" flavor but how many bards have Tremorsense, and increased unarmed damage? Or Scorching Ray? Or an ability that gives a scaling bonus to fortitude saves? How many rogues? The reason it has so many variable abilities is to allow the player to pick the ones that work towards their specific concept and allow multiple options to pick from. The focus you're looking for comes from the pools of options you can use to give focus to the character you want to build, look at the Oracle for example.
I feel like you're dismissing the whole idea right off the bat without really looking into it. If you are looking at things in detail, then would you be willing to give me some ideas on how to even out the power of the Masque abilities? Maybe something to differentiate them from cleric domains? I did admittedly use domains as a template, but wanted to make the abilities powerful enough to be a defining feature of the class, rather than be a tacked on side-note.
The tremorsense and such don't really feel cohesive. I'd instead take the approach that each masque helps you assume a different disguise that grant you powers. (Kind of an approach I wish the vigilante too)
Also, the class doesn't say how many masques they can have.
The tremorsense and such don't really feel cohesive. I'd instead take the approach that each masque helps you assume a different disguise that grant you powers. (Kind of an approach I wish the vigilante too)
Also, the class doesn't say how many masques they can have.
Number of masques quantified. I guess I'm just not seeing what you mean by "cohesive." Do the powers the masques give feel off-theme with each other?
The masque adding a sort of Alter-ego sounds cool but that feels like exactly what the class can already do. Everything else I can think of feels like I'm just using the Dual-identity class ability, which although it fits well, I've already been assured I'm using too many features of other classes. I could try something like:
Do you have any thoughts on the level of mechanical power the class has?
EDIT: I could try something like: "When the Harlequin wears his Masque, he may treat this as a disguise attempt. If he succeeds against an opponent's perception check, they have no recollection of meeting him in or out of his masque disguise." I don't know, feels a bit weird.
First I'll add to the chorus, the ability should be namded One Thousand Faces, or A Thousand Faces, or something. 1000 Faces is weird.
Masque: First what is the point of having a masque if he doesn't have to wear it? Second how is it reformed immediatey, what action does it take or s it a no action? What is the point of it being an object if it can't be stolen or brooken even for a round? Try this wording:
Every Harlequin is attuned to a source of eldritch magical power. At level one he creates a supernatural mask representing his personality or the source of his powers. If this mask is stolen or broken he can recreate it in his hands as a move action. The harlequin must be wearing his masque to gain it's powers.
Thematically why would he only have one masque? He should be able to have several masques known and then be able to switch between them to gain different powers.
You could stiil add as masques: Wind and Fire since you already have ones for earth and water; Maybe a few more based on animals and monsters, including a devil to balance the Seraphin; Everyman or Blank giving you a Disqguise Self that also disguise the fact that you are wearing a Masque; and others based on theater traditions.
The masques themselves seem to be a little stronger than domains but not by that much too sustain a class on itself.
Graceful Strokes: Holy mangled english Batman. Try: "A Harlequin is adept at striking when his enemies are otherwise preocuppied. At second level he gains a +1 (morale? competence?) bonus to hit enemies that are threatened by one of his allies. This bonus increases by +1 at seventh level and every five levels after. This bonus stacks with the bonus from flanking."
Normal language for PF/D&D is 'he gains this bonus at this level and the bonus increases at these levels" Also bonus always need to be typed. Untyped bonus are very powerful abilities. Keep in mind that penalties don't have type but bonus always have.
Sneak Attack, Nimble, Harlequin Discipline and Harlequin Spells are good.
Masquerade Dance: You gain a second Domain. Underwhelming.
Masquerade Host: you gain two more domains. Very underwhellming for a capstone.
Mechanically it could probably be redone as a Slayer archetype, it doesn't rally have anything going on that deserves it's own class.
Thematically the only thing connecting it with harlequins and jesters are the masques and you only have one for most of your career. You can't mock people into doing stupid stuff, or taunt them to give penalties. You can't have several masques and switch between masques to emulate different party roles. You don't have disciplines for clowning around juggling or being an acrobat. Seems more like you just wanted your own take on the magic rogue but you missed a good opportunity to make a kind of full BAB bard, capable of changing his abilities to suit any party role while debuffinh enemies.
For ideas you could check the Master of Masks PrC from 3.5 Complete Scoundrel, and the Jester class from Dragon Compendium.
First I'll add to the chorus, the ability should be namded One Thousand Faces, or A Thousand Faces, or something. 1000 Faces is weird.
Masque: First what is the point of having a masque if he doesn't have to wear it? Second how is it reformed immediatey, what action does it take or s it a no action? What is the point of it being an object if it can't be stolen or brooken even for a round? Try this wording:
Every Harlequin is attuned to a source of eldritch magical power. At level one he creates a supernatural mask representing his personality or the source of his powers. If this mask is stolen or broken he can recreate it in his hands as a move action. The harlequin must be wearing his masque to gain it's powers.Thematically why would he only have one masque? He should be able to have several masques known and then be able to switch between them to gain different powers.
You could stiil add as masques: Wind and Fire since you already have ones for earth and water; Maybe a few more based on animals and monsters, including a devil to balance the Seraphin; Everyman or Blank giving you a Disqguise Self that also disguise the fact that you are wearing a Masque; and others based on theater traditions.The masques themselves seem to be a little stronger than domains but not by that much too sustain a class on itself.
Graceful Strokes: Holy mangled english Batman. Try: "A Harlequin is adept at striking when his enemies are otherwise preocuppied. At second level he gains a +1 (morale? competence?) bonus to hit enemies that are threatened by one of his allies. This bonus increases by +1 at seventh level and every five levels after. This bonus stacks with the bonus from flanking."
Normal language for PF/D&D is 'he gains this bonus at this level and the bonus increases at these levels" Also bonus always need to be typed. Untyped bonus are very powerful abilities. Keep in mind that penalties don't have type but bonus always have.Sneak Attack, Nimble, Harlequin Discipline and Harlequin Spells are good....
I appreciate the analysis! In order:
1000 faces: Name of ability changed, still not sure why this is important, but if nobody likes it I have to assume there's something I'm missing.
Masque: I will adjust the language once more, I just can't seem to get this to come out the way I want it to. I like where you're going with it so I'll make a few tweaks. But the Harlequin does in fact have ways to do a few of the things you mention already. For example the feats at the bottom allow a power from an additional masque or more to chose from, and Masquerade Dance/Host as you mention add other masques for increased versatility. Perhaps adding another ability gained later to each masque could be added? This would add a bit of omph to the masques individually, as well as allow me to spread what they do get out more. And the added bonus of beefing up Masquerade Dance/Host by proxy. Yep that sounds good, I'll start brainstorming and post ideas here, since theres quite a few masques already. I'll add the additional caveat that only a certain number of masques can be active at any one time, with the capstone removing this new limitation. Does that sound adequate so far?
Graceful Strokes: Thanks especially for this advice, this helps me a lot with designing in general. Although bonuses seem to mostly be typed when they are magical or supernatural in nature, the fighters Weapon Training and the rangers Favored Enemy for example, or the Unchained Barbarian's Rage, are all rather similar in that way, I feel comfortable keeping the bonus as-is.
Other comments: I agree this looks like an extensive slayer archetype, though that would be because the slayer was not yet released when I first created this class, and as you note, it has a similar idea. However you can definitely use Comedy of Errors to force penalties on your enemies. So there's that. I hope to address the rest of these problems with the upgraded Masque powers.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@Green Smashomancer - I think I already link'd you to the Dreadmasque MCA, and the Direlock Base Class has a Dreadmasque archetype that gains Masques - both have mechanics for the mask on how it physically interacts with damage and forced removal.
Also, yes, check out the 3.5 Master of Masks PrC and Rite Publishing's Masquerade Reveler, designed by (Vigilante co-designer) Mark Seifter.
I like how the Direlock archetype handles it's Eldritch Masque. Very much like a holy symbol, why didn't I think of that?
On to a rough draft of the new-and-improved masques. First, since I have a player who would like to try this one out, the Aqua masque. How does this look, slightly adjusted to even out the abilities gained?
Aqua: “Wearers of this Masque, slip movements so majestic.”
Aqueous Life (ex): The Harlequin gains Swim as a class Skill and the amphibious quality, as well as a swim speed equal to his base land speed, if he already has a swim speed, that speed doubles. The Harlequin is also able to see clearly through fogs and mists as if they weren’t there.
Flowing River (ex): Starting at 6th level the harlequin gains a +1 deflection bonus to his Armor Class, this bonus increases by 1 at 12th level. In addition, the harlequin gains a bonus on all Acrobatics checks equal to double his Nimble bonus, and there is no increase in DC to checks for going through an opponent’s square.
Unfettered Form (su): Starting at 14th level, the Harlequin is under a permanent supernatural Freedom of Movement effect as long as he is conscious. In addition, he can choose to replace his damage from Sneak Attack as Cold damage instead of precision damage as a free action at the start of his turn. When he does so, this damage is multiplied on a critical hit, but only up to x2.
Admittedly the new ability could use a better name, any suggestions?
Also, how does this sound? Should I move where some of these abilities are gained? The rough format I'm going for is three abilities, one at first level, second at 6th or 8th based on power, and the third at 12th or 14th.
Fluid form Perhaps