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I level 1 Swashbuckler for d10 HD, Full BaB, Parry and Riposte, and Fencing Grace (dex to Damage). Also a Investigators combat abilities are really poor levels 1-4 so Level 1 Swash really helps them survive and be decent in combat till Level 5.
Then I go into my levels of Investigator.
I tend to go with the Envoy Elf myself because of racial and the SLA envoy options give you. They are some decent SLAs that make an Investigators job easier from time to time.
Personally I was under the impression that the Ranger and the Inquisitor would do most of the fighting...but I could be wrong.If your talking Empiricist Investigator I recommend a level 1 dip into inspired blade swash for quick access to fencing grace while adding to your melee bag of tricks. If you grab mutagen you can +8 your dex by level 5 and if you throw in alter self or reduce person +10 dex.
I really love the synergy of the 2 classes. Plus first 5 levels of Investigator suck for combat.
Sure, we would take care of the fighting, but at the end of the day it's an AP designed for 4 players and we could use all the help we could get. Not only that, but new players - him especially, if I know him well - would like to participate in combat as well as in the social/skills aspects, so having a few feats that make him efficient in battle are a good thing.
He'll most likely never be on par with the Ranger or the Inquisitor, but an early dip in Swashbuckler as suggested and some early focus on melee combat could go a long way in making the whole game much more interesting for him. Plus, for what it's worth, I won't focus my Inquisitor solely on combat - I actually plan on making a rather mediocre build and focus far more on flavour and roleplay, so I won't say no to some extra umpf in combat!
I forgot to mention (if your group doesn't have a trapfinder in it) the Crypt Breaker alchemist archetype. It's pretty good at it, and can be a terror vs. corporeal undead (upping the die to a d8 at low levels, and then adding +1 per die and getting improved crit with them at level 14).
Will keep that in mind as well, thanks for the new suggestion!
THAT is why we said they Way didn't stand a chance against him...
Well not unless he fights an aspect of Tar-Barphon or something similar.
I level 1 Swashbuckler for d10 HD, Full BaB, Parry and Riposte, and Fencing Grace (dex to Damage). Also a Investigators combat abilities are really poor levels 1-4 so Level 1 Swash really helps them survive and be decent in combat till Level 5.
Then I go into my levels of Investigator.
I tend to go with the Envoy Elf myself because of racial and the SLA envoy options give you. They are some decent SLAs that make an Investigators job easier from time to time.
Again Fruian wasn't sure that's why they're getting this third player. It seems like the Ranger can handle SOME of the combat (especially the ranged aspect). But whatever man. I'm fine with Investigator being the second/face fiddle more so than just a straight rogue.
Sure, we would take care of the fighting, but at the end of the day it's an AP designed for 4 players and we could use all the help we could get. Not only that, but new players - him especially, if I know him well - would like to participate in combat as well as in the social/skills aspects, so having a few feats that make him efficient in battle are a good thing.
He'll most likely never be on par with the Ranger or the Inquisitor, but an early dip in Swashbuckler as suggested and some early focus on melee combat could go a long way in making the whole game much more interesting for him. Plus, for what it's worth, I won't focus my Inquisitor solely on combat - I actually plan on making a rather mediocre build and focus far more on flavour and roleplay, so I won't say no to some extra umpf in combat!
I stand corrected then.
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With the right Trait choice he will be no 2nd Fiddle as he will blow the others clean out the water with skills getting INT to more than half his skills and being able to Inspire the rolls and Derring-Do.
And his damage will be surprising since he is adding Dex to his damage...Once you drop down that level 5 synergy: +10 dex, +2 NA, +1 AC Size bonus your going to be a surprisingly good frontliner even in Light armor...not to mention Parry & Riposte tearing it up.
With the right Trait choice he will be no 2nd Fiddle as he will blow the others clean out the water with skills getting INT to more than half his skills. And his damage will be surprising...Once you drop down that level 5 +10 dex, +2 NA, +1 AC Size bonus your going to be a surprisingly good frontliner even in Light armor...not to mention Parry & Riposte tearing it up.
I will take your word for it. I've yet to have an Investigator in any campaigns I've run. (Or been in for that matter.)
I stand corrected then.
Ah, no need for that! It was a very good point you made, and I'm far from certain on what he'll want to do. He may very well like the idea of focusing on out-of-combat aspects, who knows? And for what it's worth, I'd probably go full detective-type Investigator myself if I were to play on. Straight up Sherlock Holmes, most likely fighting with my fists when the need arose.
[And on a side note, man did this thread end up suppressing my initial expectations by a mile! I was hoping for a couple of suggestions at best, but you guys really helped a lot, so thanks everyone!]
Ah, no need for that! It was a very good point you made, and I'm far from certain on what he'll want to do. He may very well like the idea of focusing on out-of-combat aspects, who knows? And for what it's worth, I'd probably go full detective-type Investigator myself if I were to play on. Straight up Sherlock Holmes, most likely fighting with my fists when the need arose.
[And on a side note, man did this thread end up suppressing my initial expectations by a mile! I was hoping for a couple of suggestions at best, but you guys really helped a lot, so thanks everyone!]
Well I'm glad I could help. Also whatever your friend decides, just come back here and I'll be happy to help with whatever problems might come up. As I said, I know Carrion Crown pretty well.
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Most of us in the group think the GM amped up the vampires out of his own personal prejudices, or does Luvick have a touch AC of over 40?Last I checked his touch was only like 15 I think. High for some, but a) strong Dex character and b) plenty of Deflection bonus. *checks* Yep Touch AC 15. Your DM must REALLY like vampires to make him that strong. Hell his competition, Malyas, a 15th level Vampire Antipaladin doesn't have that kind of Touch AC.
Wow. But yeah I know all about the GM beefing up the enemies. At my local shop we have a GM only game. Basically you have to be a regular GM to join it. Anyway we are running Reign of Winter, and for a while we had 6 regular players, but we lost our elf druid with that plant affinity or whatever it is and his Trent companion. But even after that the GM kept beefing stuff up because we were all to powerful, at least the other players were :P. We took out a medium sized dragon by sneaking up on it got a surprise round off and then killed it in the first round before it could attack. Anyway the GM ended up beefing up the enemies and also beefing up the gold for it. He used instead of Frost Giants, Barbarian Frost Giants. We just recently started book 3 and are all level 11 and we are just now starting to run into enemies that are a real threat to anyone in the party but me.
Anyway, sorry for that rant. I love Swashbucklers and currently have as my backup for the aforementioned game an Ifrit Swashbuckler 8/ Unchained Rogue 3. He can inflict massive damage and I have a great way to bring him in if my Rogue dies. But, to the point, yes Swashbucklers are great combat classes, and could really work in this game. But I think one would work more because they do not need to specialize to be awesome. And with only 3 regulars I will state again, I would recommend against going overly specialized with the characters. It is also a reason I would recommend a Bard as well.
So yeah sorry to ramble like that. Hope I was at least a bit helpful or entertaining. Have a great day :).
Wow Mister Griffith, sounds like your DM didn't quite figure out how to handle some things as well as he should. Maybe.
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Wow Mister Griffith, sounds like your DM didn't quite figure out how to handle some things as well as he should. Maybe.
It is more like he was going against 5 power gamers and 1 guy that was just having fun with it. He ended up killing one players character twice before me and another guy jumped in at the beginning of book 2. Honestly, most of the guys were building insanely powerful characters. Today we hit level 12, and we have a Monk that can flurry when hasted gets 7 attacks. Then there is the Ranger that is now taking Barbarian levels who is a double shield fighter that shield bashes each turn for possibly over 120 damage. Then we have a Gunslinger/Assassin/Rogue that when hasted gets off 5 Shots with his musket and all that is against touch so yeah well over 100 possible damage per turn. Then there is out Shaman who loves tossing selective fireballs that do massive amounts of damage, she is a level 12 caster now so yeah insane, and slumbers or misfortunes anyone she comes across. Then of course we had the Druid and his Trent that were both beat sticks but they had to drop out. And then we have my silly little Unchained Rogue that is basically just the groups skill monkey that can also lob 6d6 bombs and hit with a good amount of sneak, though he is almost more squishy than the Shaman. But yeah, I have an Ifrit Swashbuckler/Unchained Rogue as a back-up character that can deal massive damage as well. Was planning a Vivisectionist Alchemist whit the Feral Mutagen ability but they did not want a worshiper of Zon-Kuthon in the party if my Rogue died. Anyway, we are already planning of making the White Dragon at the end of book 3 into an Ancient Whyrm with a few Mythic Level so we do not kill it in round one like the last 2 dragons we ran into. Seriously he has been adding enemies and buffing them and all sorts of stuff but has all these power gamers that just smash everything. We took out 3 Frost Hydras today in 2 rounds, and not to mention at least a dozen drakes. Then he even added an Adult White dragon that lasted 1.5 rounds, it got one turn before it was killed in the second round. Not to mention a Dragonkin General that he gave full hit-points so it would not die the first turn. But yeah he has done a lot of beefing up of the enemies and we all just leveled up to level 12. Basically all we have left to do is kill the big bad Dragon then we move onto the next book. But yeah the GM is doing great, it is just that we have a bunch of insane power gamers that love to break the game playing.